DeRozan and Lowry will end up being the best raptors of all time

[Barolt]

I don't see that at all. Minus his still-developing 3-ball, DeMar is good-to-go right now as well. And they're going to go out and demonstrate that in the playoffs this year.

Lowry's a legitimate MVP candidate(I mean, Steph is the MVP, but still..). DeMar's a solid all-star. Not in the same tier.

[KeonClark]

I don't see that at all. Minus his still-developing 3-ball, DeMar is good-to-go right now as well. And they're going to go out and demonstrate that in the playoffs this year.

Imo no question they're both in separate tiers. Demar jumped from 3rd banana on a "real good" team to 2nd banana on a real good team this year. Lowry jumped from 2nd banana to alpha dog on a real good team

[SkywalkerAC]

I think we have to seperate DeMar and Lowry in terms of this conversation. It's natural to want to link them, but in terms of what they've done there's a large gap. Lowry is this team's heart and soul. DeMar may yet have that moment, but it likely won't be while Lowry's in his prime.

I don't see that at all. Minus his still-developing 3-ball, DeMar is good-to-go right now as well. And they're going to go out and demonstrate that in the playoffs this year.

[Barolt]

The thing is, if you define impact simply on on court performance, impact on winning, mvp votes etc, Lowry is having a season as good as peak VC. Believe it or not.

I think we have to seperate DeMar and Lowry in terms of this conversation. It's natural to want to link them, but in terms of what they've done there's a large gap. Lowry is this team's heart and soul. DeMar may yet have that moment, but it likely won't be while Lowry's in his prime.

[SkywalkerAC]

On the other hand, DeRozan's entire career doesn't hold a candle to a few franchise-altering moments from Carter's time in Toronto; the all-star dunk contest and the 2nd round battle with AI, which was a shot away from the ECF (which they very well could have won).

Bosh's entire career with the Raptors was 'meh', while Lowry has had a couple good seasons, but has yet to lead them out of the first round.

I'm a guy who despised Carter and the way he left, would hate to see him back on the Raptors, and would be sick to my stomach if the Raptors retired his jersey. I would never boo him, I simply think he's not worth the effort. Having said that, no Raptor has had the impact (no matter how you choose to define it) that he had.

Early days (for DeMar and Lowry) though, or so it would seem. VC's book closed, unceremoniously, early than it should have, making it all but easy to eclipse. There's even an argument to be made for Bosh's solid 7 years.

[KeonClark]

On the other hand, DeRozan's entire career doesn't hold a candle to a few franchise-altering moments from Carter's time in Toronto; the all-star dunk contest and the 2nd round battle with AI, which was a shot away from the ECF (which they very well could have won).

Bosh's entire career with the Raptors was 'meh', while Lowry has had a couple good seasons, but has yet to lead them out of the first round.

I'm a guy who despised Carter and the way he left, would hate to see him back on the Raptors, and would be sick to my stomach if the Raptors retired his jersey. I would never boo him, I simply think he's not worth the effort. Having said that, no Raptor has had the impact (no matter how you choose to define it) that he had.

The thing is, if you define impact simply on on court performance, impact on winning, mvp votes etc, Lowry is having a season as good as peak VC. Believe it or not.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Carter was amazing, but it just wasn't for a long enough term, due in large part to the way that team was constructed. Add the way Vince gave up on the organization and he's not all that hard to surpass.

Length of service counts a lot towards ball players' legacies.

On the other hand, DeRozan's entire career doesn't hold a candle to a few franchise-altering moments from Carter's time in Toronto; the all-star dunk contest and the 2nd round battle with AI, which was a shot away from the ECF (which they very well could have won).

Bosh's entire career with the Raptors was 'meh', while Lowry has had a couple good seasons, but has yet to lead them out of the first round.

I'm a guy who despised Carter and the way he left, would hate to see him back on the Raptors, and would be sick to my stomach if the Raptors retired his jersey. I would never boo him, I simply think he's not worth the effort. Having said that, no Raptor has had the impact (no matter how you choose to define it) that he had.

[SkywalkerAC]

Carter was amazing, but it just wasn't for a long enough term, due in large part to the way that team was constructed. Add the way Vince gave up on the organization and he's not all that hard to surpass.

Length of service counts a lot towards ball players' legacies.

[OldSkoolCool]

Honestly I would put Amit Johnson ahead of DD on the all time Raptors list. Dude didnt bring the numbers but was a huge reason why we climbed out of the basement on his defense and efficiency

Moe Pete's career in TO is nearly as good as DDs as well...

[KeonClark]

Despite the way his Raptors career ended, I still think Carter is at the top of this list, and it's not even close. Unless there's a requirement for # of years played, Carter was far better and more impactful to his team/franchise/fan base/city/country/league than any other Raptor, and he took the Raptors further into the playoffs than anyone else.

After Vinsanity, there's a big drop-off, where I think Bosh, Lowry and DeRozan all deserve to be mentioned.

The Raptors have had some solid role-players, who I think tend to get elevated by Toronto's blue-collar loving fans: Mo-P, Davis, Oakley, Alvin, Calderon, Amir, Ford, Christie, etc...

Guys like Stoudemire and McGrady could have been near the top of this list, had they not left town so quickly.

Should the Raptors get into (or past) the second round over the next few years, with the Lowry/DeRozan core, then I think they'd separate themselves from Bosh and start approaching VC. But not yet...

IF the Raptors get into the ecf you will see bedlam, approaching the blue jays fever of last year and probably eclipsing the height of vinsanity.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Despite the way his Raptors career ended, I still think Carter is at the top of this list, and it's not even close. Unless there's a requirement for # of years played, Carter was far better and more impactful to his team/franchise/fan base/city/country/league than any other Raptor, and he took the Raptors further into the playoffs than anyone else.

After Vinsanity, there's a big drop-off, where I think Bosh, Lowry and DeRozan all deserve to be mentioned.

The Raptors have had some solid role-players, who I think tend to get elevated by Toronto's blue-collar loving fans: Mo-P, Davis, Oakley, Alvin, Calderon, Amir, Ford, Christie, etc...

Guys like Stoudemire and McGrady could have been near the top of this list, had they not left town so quickly.

Should the Raptors get into (or past) the second round over the next few years, with the Lowry/DeRozan core, then I think they'd separate themselves from Bosh and start approaching VC. But not yet...

[KeonClark]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

That is correct superjudge

[DanH]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

They'd certainly be deep in that 5-10 muddle without him, at best.

[Superjudge]

So the sentiment here, as I am reading it, is that Kyle Lowry is SO good, that Toronto is a fringe team at best without him. Likely, they don't even make the Playoffs without him.

Is this correct, or am I misreading?

[nubreed000]

...and you'd be wrong (if that's your definition of being a brat).

Not wanting to stay somewhere doesn't make you a brat. Not even close. Especially since it didn't impact his play or his attitude here.

Agreed. Look at the Morris in Phoenix...that's a brat. Lowry came here, played hard and didn't bitch at all.