Game 66: Milwaukee Bucks 89 - Toronto Raptors 107

[consmap]

Scraptor said playing time and opportunities no? The only one getting an ample amount of both is DeRozan. Ross wasn't even playing starter minutes even when John freaking Salmons was his backup. Powell is at 8 minutes a game right now. Our highest picked player since 2006 has a PER of 21.3 in a 2 season span and you want to sit there and pretend he's getting opportunities with 8 shots a game in 26 minutes a night?

The double standards from Dwane Casey have been ridiculous. Players that take bad shots and struggle on defense are called out/benched unless you're DeRozan, Lowry, Rudy or Bargnani. Once Casey anoints someone as the "guy" they can't seem to do any wrong, or he tries to make it so their wrongs aren't bad (remember when he asked Bargs to get 2 rebounds a quarter, then later set the bar even lower and just asked him to box out?). He only prioritizes involving the "guys" in the offense and allows them to run the show, even if it means other players are frozen out of the offense. Bad shots they take are shots that they normally make.

And when their defense is putrid, he hardly mentions it and basically every other player on the floor with them has to do what they can to make up for their short comings. Casey used to trot out Calderon over Lowry as mentioned above, and on numerous occasions had Vasquez out on the floor in the clutch despite preaching defense. I could say more but meh

[Axel]

Why??

He makes a very strong point and a pretty important one. People here have fallen into a few common schools of thoughts.... and they are false, and they have to stop yapping about them.

Well Craig it's quite simple, he isn't trying to start a conversation or make a point, it's simply bait and it's been posted too much around here lately. It's not his place, or yours, to tell people to "stop yapping about them."

[JWash]

Decided to make a thread instead.

[Superjudge]

I'm very curious as to when you'll stop posting crap like this. Stop wasting your time with posts about other posters or lame attempts to goad some into a pointless conversation. If you have a point to make, make it, but cut out this crap.

Why??

He makes a very strong point and a pretty important one. People here have fallen into a few common schools of thoughts.... and they are false, and they have to stop yapping about them.

[tDotted]

This season, Green led the Spurs in minutes played. Splitter, Leonard and Neal all logged more minutes than Ginobili. It's about keeping the stars fresh, which is crucial. And it's about developing the young corps. The right way to distribute minutes is up and down the roster. When you get it right, you can end up with fresh veterans and trusted young players, both of whom can work wonders.

Some more gold. Applies to this team a lot.

[Barolt]

Here is an example that references both Popovich's commitment to playing young players, as well as our playing Aaron Gray over Jonas Valanciunas in crunch time:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...-young-players

I don't know why ridiculous Casey quotes continue to astound me, but I just can't get over how many there are.

[JimiCliff]

Here is an example that references both Popovich's commitment to playing young players, as well as our playing Aaron Gray over Jonas Valanciunas in crunch time:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...-young-players

This right here is the money quote:

Casey said he hasn't had deep discussions with the analytics team about Valanciunas, but Sterner has, and he agreed it's sometimes a thorny issue of valuing culture over results. "You want your defense to be sound," Sterner says. "Even though the production might be better, you still want [Valanciunas] doing the right thing."

Or maybe - maybe - you show a little humility and say 'hmm...even though we don't like this, it's actually working better...how can we adjust to take advantage of it?'

[JimiCliff]

Valanciunas is still tentative as shit after all the times Casey yanked him around. He's played fewer minutes per game this year than either of the previous two seasons.

Absolutely fucking ridiculous, mind-boggling, unfathomable and atrocious.

[tDotted]

So we can't develop players either now?

Is it really a knock on the development program to say that there wouldn't be as many opportunities for Giannis to elevate his game with 2 Allstars on the team? You think Paul George would break out in his 3rd and 4th season if not for Granger going down with injury?

No, no, no. The only difference between them is NBA playing time. That's the sole factor at play.

And we all know that no young player (Derozan) has ever developed into anything as a member of the Toronto (Valanciunas) Raptors cause young players get no opportunity (Ross) to play here as can be seen with refusal of the coaching staff to play any rookies (Powell) this year at all.

Scraptor said playing time and opportunities no? The only one getting an ample amount of both is DeRozan. Ross wasn't even playing starter minutes even when John freaking Salmons was his backup. Powell is at 8 minutes a game right now. Our highest picked player since 2006 has a PER of 21.3 in a 2 season span and you want to sit there and pretend he's getting opportunities with 8 shots a game in 26 minutes a night?

[GLF]

No, no, no. The only difference between them is NBA playing time. That's the sole factor at play.

And we all know that no young player (Derozan) has ever developed into anything as a member of the Toronto (Valanciunas) Raptors cause young players get no opportunity (Ross) to play here as can be seen with refusal of the coaching staff to play any rookies (Powell) this year at all.

LMAO good one.

[OldSkoolCool]

DeRozan started from day one for two years under Jay Triano, who for all his faults was great at instilling confidence into young players. That was 4500 minutes of playing time and enough experience to establish himself as a cornerstone before Casey took over.

Valanciunas is still tentative as shit after all the times Casey yanked him around. He's played fewer minutes per game this year than either of the previous two seasons.

Ross has yet to prove any sort of consistency.

Powell is almost 23 and is 39th among NBA rookies in minutes played.

Playing time is not the only factor in player development, but it is the biggest one. You can make as many passive-aggressive posts as you want on the subject, but if Gregg Popovich believes it is critical for development (as I've posted many, many times), that's good enough for me.

This pretty well sums up player development under Casey

Guys dont get experience or proper opportunity like they would elsewhere.

Ill add to your post by explaining Lowry. Lowry was putting up good numbers before he came here...and when he got here he was benched for Jose until we traded hin away and Casey had no other choice but to play him. Casey did not develop Lowry into the player he is today.

Giannis and Leonard are case and point examples of the benefits of giving a good balance between playing time, and structured development program

[Scraptor]

Here is an example that references both Popovich's commitment to playing young players, as well as our playing Aaron Gray over Jonas Valanciunas in crunch time:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...-young-players

[Scraptor]

No, no, no. The only difference between them is NBA playing time. That's the sole factor at play.

And we all know that no young player (Derozan) has ever developed into anything as a member of the Toronto (Valanciunas) Raptors cause young players get no opportunity (Ross) to play here as can be seen with refusal of the coaching staff to play any rookies (Powell) this year at all.

DeRozan started from day one for two years under Jay Triano, who for all his faults was great at instilling confidence into young players. That was 4500 minutes of playing time and enough experience to establish himself as a cornerstone before Casey took over.

Valanciunas is still tentative as shit after all the times Casey yanked him around. He's played fewer minutes per game this year than either of the previous two seasons.

Ross has yet to prove any sort of consistency.

Powell is almost 23 and is 39th among NBA rookies in minutes played.

Playing time is not the only factor in player development, but it is the biggest one. You can make as many passive-aggressive posts as you want on the subject, but if Gregg Popovich believes it is critical for development (as I've posted many, many times), that's good enough for me.

[JWash]

No, no, no. The only difference between them is NBA playing time. That's the sole factor at play.

And we all know that no young player (Derozan) has ever developed into anything as a member of the Toronto (Valanciunas) Raptors cause young players get no opportunity (Ross) to play here as can be seen with refusal of the coaching staff to play any rookies (Powell) this year at all.

Pretty much. For all the talk about poor development, this team is pretty damn homegrown.

Lowry emerged as a superstar HERE
DeRozan went from inefficient volume scorer to star scorer HERE
Jonas became a legitimate double-double center HERE (and he's still growing obviously)
Ross became a legitimate 3+D weapon HERE

That's arguably our 4 best players all homegrown (3 drafted, 1 traded for). What else do you want? We're not going to sit DeMar DeRozan to play Powell 25mpg (and btw he's getting a chance to play significant minutes right now anyway). We're not going to sacrifice major wins to play an unproven Bruno significant minutes. We have the second best point guard tandem in the league, it's going to be really hard for Delon to break into that consistently.

And you HAVE TO take into account the fact that Casey is on a 1 year deal and have a little bit of damn respect for that. He is in an uncertain job environment and needs to make sure he's getting what he thinks is the best out of his team. If that means not handing even 10 minutes to guys who aren't proven, then that's what's going to happen for the time-being. That is what anyone would do in his situation. He's not a Popovich, Carslisle or even a guy like Brad Stevens who has incredible job security right now.

[Scraptor]

Umm ok.

We had no small forward. And Giannis came in much more NBA ready than Bruno.

Giannis was widely seen as an unproven, raw NBA prospect.

the level of competition that he played at this season is comparable to Division II or III in college.

His production was very good for the amount of playing time he received, although the level of play in the Greek "2" league is very low.

But it's still just potential. He'll need several years of top Euro-level competition to get him ready for the rigors of the NBA.

The biggest thing holding Adetokunbo back at the moment is his lack of experience. He's a late bloomer who did not have the benefit of growing up playing against other top international talents his age in the various FIBA competitions over the years

.

Giannis was younger than Bruno his rookie year, and his body was just as raw.