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Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

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  • #16
    JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I'm curious about this too. I haven't followed the Dleague team closely though. But I wonder sometimes if you want to put some of these guys, especially the ones you have under contract, in different situations, putting the ball in their hands more or whatever, just to see what you got and what they may be able to do in those situations.

    But I like the idea of having a DLeague team. I wish it was more like the NHL though, but it is what it is, and that's a start like you said, even for the league itself as more NBA teams get on board. It really benefits a guy like Bruno, a total project, and who never got a sniff of the NCAA. Powell and Wright and Bebe are certainly more NBA ready right now. But it's hard to find these guys consistent minutes with the Raps, so playing them with the 905 as much as possible seems like a good idea. Unfortunate though, that they haven't played as much with either team, but I can understand them not getting much time with the Raps.

    But I also really like the way our roster is constructed, having those 4 young guys at the back end of the roster. I figured at the beginning of the season they wouldn't see much of the floor, but it's a smart idea I think to structure that way. You always have assets on value contracts with "potential" to sweeten any deals, plus you got guys on value contracts to fill bench roles in the event you trade rotation players down the line to upgrade the roster. I think this is important for cap management, especially considering that good starting units cost so much. And I'd much rather have rookies and sophomores at the end of the bench then vets.
    What you highlighted from my post was mostly concerning Bruno. In the NBA, I see him being most success playing off ball as a spot up shooter, and a threat to cut back door...yet we often see him dribble drive attacking in the DL. We aren't developing his off-ball skills in such a way that will benefit him when he steps onto the big court. It just isn't his game to dribble and attack like that. He would be best if we taught him foot work for coming off of screens for a quick shot, when to cut, how to cut, etc. Not dribble drive kickouts.

    Maybe I'm wrong in that I think Bruno's development should work in -simplified- goals

    1) Defense
    2) defense and the occasional three
    2) better defense and a consistent three point threat
    3) great defense and a three point sharp shooter
    4) elite defense, a three point sharp shooter, and the ability to handle

    Whereas we seem to be focusing on screen and roll action and dribble drive kickouts, as well as shooting. Seems to be a convoluted goal oriented system. I don't see much emphasis on defense either from our DL team.

    Contrary to Bruno, Wright and Powell are players whose game is better suited to that dribble drive skills. So they are put into spots that can translate to the NBA, and has likely improved their games wrt to the NBA, though we haven't seen enough of them to tell for sure. Remember, Powell and Wright both lit up the summer league, so these guys had a good base to begin with.

    As for Bebe, we massively under utilize him. At least between him and JV we are consistent at under utilizing our starting centers

    As for rookies vs vets. Yes, yes please. Vets historically kill basketball teams by capping them out whilst depleting talent.

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    • #17
      To your points OP:

      everyone was so excited about it.... now... people are up in arms about guys not getting significant minutes with the main roster?
      Not everyone thought it was going to be a panacea. I am almost certain that the same people who were lukewarm on its significance when it was announced are the same people who are lukewarm on its significance now.

      I just don't really get this idea of trying to force a bunch of young guys into the rotation that aren't needed at present.
      The idea has nothing to do with the present. It has to do with the future.

      consider that it does in fact WORK in other sports.
      The main problem is that the D-League is not remotely as organized or competitive as other developmental leagues.

      Superagent Arn Tellem published an excellent piece on the problems with the D-league about a year ago.
      http://grantland.com/the-triangle/d-...s-farm-system/

      I don't think anyone is arguing that having a D-league team is not beneficial. It is. But I think the benefits of being on the D-league squad are minimal compared to other sports' developmental leagues and to actual NBA game experience.

      The NBA is simply on a different level in terms of speed and competition, and there is no substitute for minutes on that level. You don't learn or develop from middling competition, you learn through adversity and challenge. That simply isn't there in the D-league. Not yet.
      It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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      • #18
        Of course it is. Combine it with practicing and a few minutes with the Big team and you have a decent recipe for success. Is it as rapid as force-feeding youngsters on a shitty team? Maybe not, but I'd rather have the good team.

        Hopefully we can get even better as an organization and afford to work youngsters into consistent minutes like Pop, but people forget that Pop's team is almost always veteran-laden while ours has been relatively young.
        Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Wed Mar 16th, 2016, 11:58 PM.

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        • #19
          OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          Especially since our teams are so close.

          Heard plenty of stories of guys playing DL and NBA in the same day, something I find impossible to see happening with our group
          it happens all the time. Whenever we have a home game, and the 905ers are in sauga, they always get called up.

          Whenever they have a chance to practise with the main club AND play in d league games, it happens. Thats why you constantly see them being called up/sent down. It happens ever so often that alot of people stopped paying attention
          I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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          • #20
            Axel wrote: View Post
            Now I know that people hate Spurs comps, so how about a random one. Bryce Dejean-Jones of the Pelicans has logged 561 minutes between DL and NBA this year as an undrafted free agent who has missed the last 3 weeks with a broken wrist.

            D-League can be a great tool but every DNP-CD means that we aren't using it properly.
            Important thing here is context. the pelicans are one of the worst teams in the league. The raptors are not...

            I think for the newness of the whole d league thing, the raptors have done a solid job of using. Of coarse theyre not using as well as they 100% could. But i believe by next year or maybe 2 years from now. They will be maximizing it
            I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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            • #21
              yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
              it happens all the time. Whenever we have a home game, and the 905ers are in sauga, they always get called up.

              Whenever they have a chance to practise with the main club AND play in d league games, it happens. Thats why you constantly see them being called up/sent down. It happens ever so often that alot of people stopped paying attention
              Oh I realize they get called up, but they never play

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              • #22
                yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                Important thing here is context. the pelicans are one of the worst teams in the league. The raptors are not...

                I think for the newness of the whole d league thing, the raptors have done a solid job of using. Of coarse theyre not using as well as they 100% could. But i believe by next year or maybe 2 years from now. They will be maximizing it
                So you're saying the Raptors 905 is 2 years away from being 2 years away?

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                • #23
                  yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                  Important thing here is context. the pelicans are one of the worst teams in the league. The raptors are not...

                  I think for the newness of the whole d league thing, the raptors have done a solid job of using. Of coarse theyre not using as well as they 100% could. But i believe by next year or maybe 2 years from now. They will be maximizing it
                  And the Spurs are one of the best. So your point would be what?
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #24
                    Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

                    Axel wrote: View Post
                    And the Spurs are one of the best. So your point would be what?
                    The Spurs have 4 potential future HOFs and a goat coach, we can dream to be them all you want. But at the end of the day, it's pretty hard to compare yourself to the arguably the best franchise in sports

                    You just showed 2 extremes. Neither of which we fall into

                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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                    • #25
                      Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

                      yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                      The Spurs have 4 potential future HOFs and a goat coach, we can dream to be them all you want. But at the end of the day, it's pretty hard to compare yourself to the arguably the best franchise in sports

                      You just showed 2 extremes. Neither of which we fall into
                      Ok, so I can't compare the 30th pick on a good team or an undrafted rookie on a bad team? Which teams am I allowed to compare us to?

                      And now exactly does having HOF players make a difference with the number of minutes a rookie gets? The whole "the Spurs are too great to try and compare us to" is such a stupid idea. Maybe instead of excuses, you should be learning from that franchise, and one thing they do better than anyone is give their younger player minutes and opportunity to develop.
                      Last edited by Axel; Thu Mar 17th, 2016, 08:18 AM.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                      • #26
                        Players who actually get to play will develop faster than players that don't. Players actually getting to play will play better when called in off the bench for an NBA game.

                        For a team like the Raptors who have a good rotation, who are high in the standings and want to perform well right now, they just don't have minutes for developmental guys in most cases.

                        Playing is almost always a better scenario than sitting. They can always be called up from time to time and sent back down.


                        One thing I failed to mention. It also depends on their level of ability in the NBA game. Obviously a guy like Lebron James coming out of high school was ready for the pros whereas a guy like Joe Johnson wasn't ready right out of the gate. For us, all the prospects would be suited for some d league time but they do need guys at the end of the bench at times and so they should be rotated through. Powell and Wright both look NBA ready but in both cases minutes will be hard to find. Wright already, Powell when Carroll comes back.
                        Last edited by Apollo; Thu Mar 17th, 2016, 08:46 AM. Reason: More to add.

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                        • #27
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          Players who actually get to play will develop faster than players that don't. Players actually getting to play will play better when called in off the bench for an NBA game.

                          For a team like the Raptors who have a good rotation, who are high in the standings and want to perform well right now, they just don't have minutes for developmental guys in most cases.

                          Playing is almost always a better scenario than sitting. They can always be called up from time to time and sent back down...
                          Sums it up quite nicely.

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                          • #28
                            Axel wrote: View Post
                            And the Spurs are one of the best. So your point would be what?
                            Popovich has the ultimate job security and can afford to do pretty much whatever he wants. Plus their team regularly wraps up games before the 4th quarter even starts and they have really old players that need tons of rest. Manu and Duncan are pushing 40 and Parker is in his 30s.

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                            • #29
                              tDotted wrote: View Post
                              Can't just develop someone exclusively through the D-League. NBA minutes are absolutely necessary.
                              I'm not talking about developing exclusively through the D-League.

                              But when you don't have room in your rotation for a prospect and they don't have world-beater upside that you need to force someone out for. It makes sense to use the D-League primarily to develop them. That is the entire reason we got the team. How Masai has tried to set it up is to have 5 starters (Lowry, DeRozan, Carroll, Scola (yuck), JV), 5 backups (CoJo, Ross, JJ, Patterson, Biyombo) at each of the spots and then 5 prospects at each spot as well (Delon, Powell, Bruno, Bennett (gone now), Bebe). The first two groups are going to play the majority of the minutes. If you just look at the strength at 4 of the 5 positions it makes sense that the 3rd group guys aren't getting a ton of minutes (except for Powell now because of injuries).

                              I'm sure if we had drafted a power forward, he'd probably be in the rotation, because we're weak there. Because of the strengths at the positions that our prospects are in, it makes more sense to have them develop in the D-league where they can actually get meaningful gametime and reps, and then occasionally slot them into the main rotation when we're resting someone, have injuries, etc.

                              Many people are not open to this idea. They think you have to give guys significant NBA minutes right away. No you do not. I'm telling you in Premier League soccer and other European soccer leagues that's how things work. Only world beater prospects like say an Anthony Martial would automatically be in the first team (which is what you would do in the NBA as well). If there is strength in the main roster ahead of less-ready/weaker prospects then utilizing the youth academy to develop them and allow them to actually play makes more sense. It also gives you more of an opportunity to see what kind of skillset they have and let them work on things they would not be able to at the NBA level due to a talent deficit.

                              People complain profusely about how even some of our rotation players like JV or Ross don't get enough touches. What good would it do Bruno to stand in the corner on offense? Or Wright to play off-ball while he watches Lowry or CoJo orchestrate? While also making the team worse? Being in the D-League allows these guys to have meaningful roles and expand their skillsets and confidence.

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                              • #30
                                JWash wrote: View Post
                                Popovich has the ultimate job security and can afford to do pretty much whatever he wants. Plus their team regularly wraps up games before the 4th quarter even starts and they have really old players that need tons of rest. Manu and Duncan are pushing 40 and Parker is in his 30s.
                                Parker looks like he's 50 out there lately...

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