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Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

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  • #31
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    For us, all the prospects would be suited for some d league time but they do need guys at the end of the bench at times and so they should be rotated through.
    And that is where the Raps have failed. Our best prospects have been stuck in no mans land; not getting much minutes with the Raps or the 905s. So while having the D-League team is great, we are far from maximizing its use. It's a 50 game season in the DL, and our three closest prospects have played 33 games combined there. It's a missed opportunity.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #32
      JWash wrote: View Post
      Popovich has the ultimate job security and can afford to do pretty much whatever he wants. Plus their team regularly wraps up games before the 4th quarter even starts and they have really old players that need tons of rest. Manu and Duncan are pushing 40 and Parker is in his 30s.
      So? How is that preventing the Raps from playing these guys more in the DL?
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #33
        JWash wrote: View Post
        I'm sure if we had drafted a power forward, he'd probably be in the rotation, because we're weak there. Because of the strengths at the positions that our prospects are in, it makes more sense to have them develop in the D-league where they can actually get meaningful gametime and reps, and then occasionally slot them into the main rotation when we're resting someone, have injuries, etc.

        Many people are not open to this idea. They think you have to give guys significant NBA minutes right away. No you do not.
        Jack was talking about this in regards to Powell during a game last week. Basically his take on it is that d league its an opportunity for players, not a demotion. D league is a strategic play for management, not admission of a mistake. He went on to say that the reason Powell has hit the ground running is because he's been busy kicking ass in d league instead of getting cold and rusty on the bench while he builds up stage fright for the moment he actually gets to play.

        People have this stigma with d league but I think they lose sight of why it's there and focus on what it typically is. Most players in d league will head to Europe or retire but it's full of hungry players and the talent is deeper than college. For the Raptors it's not a place to park players they don't know what to do with but rather it's a place they send players to help them along in their bid for the pros because they're going to be the focus in that setting instead of the after thought.

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        • #34
          Axel wrote: View Post
          And that is where the Raps have failed. Our best prospects have been stuck in no mans land; not getting much minutes with the Raps or the 905s. So while having the D-League team is great, we are far from maximizing its use. It's a 50 game season in the DL, and our three closest prospects have played 33 games combined there. It's a missed opportunity.
          You're absolutely right. They need to do better if those figures are correct. I haven't been following the minors closely enough and going by the message from team brass...

          Any player drafted by the Raptors that's not playing with the club should be getting big minutes down there. There should be no exceptions. Otherwise they should be moved. That's my take.

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          • #35
            Axel wrote: View Post
            So? How is that preventing the Raps from playing these guys more in the DL?
            I don't get what your point is?

            - Bruno has played 33 D-League games at 33.7mpg.

            - Bebe has only played 10 (25mpg) but that's because he spent a ton of time on the main roster because of injuries

            - Delon played 15 at 35.7mpg. He's a weird case because I think he is good enough to play in the NBA right now and contribute, but there's no room for him in the rotation. Again I don't think Masai was expecting CoJo to be available.

            - Powell only played 8 d-league games at 39.6mpg, but we've had injuries on the wings all year whether it's Caroll or JJ. He's played 33 games with the main team and started 8 of them so that's why he's not played in the d-league as much

            I don't really see anything weird or wrong with what's going on.

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            • #36
              Apollo wrote: View Post
              Jack was talking about this in regards to Powell during a game last week. Basically his take on it is that d league its an opportunity for players, not a demotion. D league is a strategic play for management, not admission of a mistake. He went on to say that the reason Powell has hit the ground running is because he's been busy kicking ass in d league instead of getting cold and rusty on the bench while he builds up stage fright for the moment he actually gets to play.

              People have this stigma with d league but I think they lose sight of why it's there and focus on what it typically is. Most players in d league will head to Europe or retire but it's full of hungry players and the talent is deeper than college. For the Raptors it's not a place to park players they don't know what to do with but rather it's a place they send players to help them along in their bid for the pros because they're going to be the focus in that setting instead of the after thought.
              This is a great point think the opportunity to play consistent, high minutes of professional basketball when they're not with the main roster is huge for these guys. A lot of them come from colleges where they were the star and were used to playing 30+mpg. To have them just be on the main team collecting dust playing 5mpg (that's all they're going to get when our team is fully healthy, if that) is kind of pointless, and like you said could lead to them getting rusty with their skills.

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              • #37
                Look at the youngsters on the Celtics/Maine Red Claws. They are being developed almost exactly like the Rasptors/905 kids. Similar DLeague games/ and similar NBA minutes.
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                • #38
                  Confidence is huge too JWash. I know some might argue that confidence shouldn't matter too much if the mechanics are there but these guys are prospects and so the mechanics might not be there or the consistency in the fundamentals around shooting mechanics might not be there. Anyone who's ever played a sport can understand confidence can lead to a hot streak or a cold streak. We're all our own biggest assets and worst enemies. Confidence isn't fostered on a bench at the ACC but confidence can be destroyed in a few sporadic runs on the court of the ACC for a players who's not used to the game speed or atmosphere because he's not playing typically.

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                  • #39
                    Apollo wrote: View Post
                    Confidence is huge too JWash. I know some might argue that confidence shouldn't matter too much if the mechanics are there but these guys are prospects and so the mechanics might not be there or the consistency in the fundamentals around shooting mechanics might not be there. Anyone who's ever played a sport can understand confidence can lead to a hot streak or a cold streak. We're all our own biggest assets and worst enemies. Confidence isn't fostered on a bench at the ACC but confidence can be destroyed in a few sporadic runs on the court of the ACC for a players who's not used to the game speed or atmosphere because he's not playing typically.
                    Isn't the easiest way to inspire confidence to show trust in a young player? What better way to show trust than to give him NBA minutes, in situations that matter?
                    twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                    • #40
                      Barolt wrote: View Post
                      Isn't the easiest way to inspire confidence to show trust in a young player? What better way to show trust than to give him NBA minutes, in situations that matter?
                      Yeah, if you're some sub. 500 crap team going nowhere. Theres more than one way to achieve objectives. This isn't a cookie cutter process.

                      Tell me, who sits so all these young guys can play? What does that do to the guys sitting? What message does that send if they're producing and working hard and still have to sit? Who are the coaches relying on in the playoffs, vets or rookies? What's on the line if they lose horribly in the playoffs?

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                      • #41
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        Yeah, if you're some sub. 500 crap team going nowhere. Theres no one way to achieve objectives.
                        The reality is, every team ahead of us in the standings has given more minutes to more guys this season.

                        Norman Powell just crossed the 250 minutes mark to give us 11 guys over that number.

                        The Spurs have 14 guys who've played at least 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 672.

                        The Warriors have 12 guys who've played 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 650.

                        The Cavs have 13 guys who've played 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 379.

                        Now, you say those teams generate more garbage time than us so they can afford it. How about a team in the middle of the playoff race?

                        The Pistons have played 19-year old Stanley Johnson 1430 minutes, 13 guys over 250 minutes.

                        The Wizards have played 20-year old Kelly Oubre 568 minutes.

                        Oubre and Johnson are both younger, and were less experienced going into the season, than every single player on our 15-man roster.
                        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                        • #42
                          The reality is that you have a coach playing for his job and a star player playing for his max offer from Toronto. There is enough incentive placed on win now by virtue of the business side of things to lead to key guys taking the minutes that might go to other players. If I'm Casey I run guys like Derozan and Lowry until the wheels fall off because as far as I know this is my audition as a coach for future opportunities.

                          This reality is why I mentioned in another thread that maybe it's a good idea to rest guys like Derozan and Lowry for a couple games before the end of the season.
                          Last edited by Apollo; Thu Mar 17th, 2016, 10:31 AM. Reason: Phone auto correct, my bad. :)

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                          • #43
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            The reality is that you have a coach playing for his job and a star player playing for his max offer from Toronto. There is enough incentive placed on win now by virtue of the business side of things to lead to key guys taking the minutes that might go to other players.

                            This reality is why I mentioned in another thread that maybe it's a good idea to rest guys like Derozan and Lowry for a couple games before the end of the season.
                            These things shouldn't override organizational needs, like developing young talent. The reason people keep bringing up the Spurs is because that's the goal, to become the Spurs and be that top notch organization. You get there by expecting more from your coach and your players, by putting the organization's goals before individual's goals.
                            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                            • #44
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              Yeah, if you're some sub. 500 crap team going nowhere. Theres more than one way to achieve objectives. This isn't a cookie cutter process.

                              Tell me, who sits so all these young guys can play? What does that do to the guys sitting? What message does that send if they're producing and working hard and still have to sit? Who are the coaches relying on in the playoffs, vets or rookies? What's on the line if they lose horribly in the playoffs?
                              Who sits? How about we don't run our star backcourt into the ground and have both players top 10 in minutes played (Lowry top 3)? How about we don't run Joseph out there for 50% more MPG than he's ever played before? How about we don't crank Carroll's minutes way past his career highs and increase risk of injury for him? It's not a matter of sitting guys constantly. Plan out a game a week or so where you give Wright, Powell and BeBe some run in backup minutes. And on other days, have them playing down in the D-League.

                              We don't need to carve out consistent minutes on a night to night basis for these guys yet. But real NBA action is a huge advantage in development.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • #45
                                Axel wrote: View Post
                                And that is where the Raps have failed. Our best prospects have been stuck in no mans land; not getting much minutes with the Raps or the 905s. So while having the D-League team is great, we are far from maximizing its use. It's a 50 game season in the DL, and our three closest prospects have played 33 games combined there. It's a missed opportunity.
                                I think Powell, Wright and Bebe, have all proven they are fairly NBA ready, so at this point D-League is just being used to keep them in game shape. They really don't have as much to "learn" from D-League as does someone like Bruno, imo. I don't think them missing D-League games at this point is hurting their development, but as Apollo mentioned there just isn't minutes available for them on a roster that is trying to contend.

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