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Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

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  • #46
    JWash wrote: View Post
    I don't get what your point is?

    - Bruno has played 33 D-League games at 33.7mpg.

    - Bebe has only played 10 (25mpg) but that's because he spent a ton of time on the main roster because of injuries

    - Delon played 15 at 35.7mpg. He's a weird case because I think he is good enough to play in the NBA right now and contribute, but there's no room for him in the rotation. Again I don't think Masai was expecting CoJo to be available.

    - Powell only played 8 d-league games at 39.6mpg, but we've had injuries on the wings all year whether it's Caroll or JJ. He's played 33 games with the main team and started 8 of them so that's why he's not played in the d-league as much

    I don't really see anything weird or wrong with what's going on.
    Well Bruno has been pretty much exclusively in the DL - which makes sense, so no complaints.

    But Delon, Bebe, and Powell aren't playing many games for the 905s. When they do, heavy minutes for sure, but not many games. So while having them on the main club is nice, if they never see the court (which they haven't for the most part) then how are we developing them?

    I could understand the desire to have active bodies in case of injury, but we've seen it this year before, a guy goes down and the rotation just gets smaller. When JV got hurt, Bebe didn't see any court time for a couple of games; so if insurance is the justification for them being on the bench, then we should be using that insurance policy when a guy gets hurt. We haven't. The list of excuses to not play these guys is growing.

    Can anyone say that the amount of MP these guys have been getting in the DL is what they expected or hoped?
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #47
      DanH wrote: View Post
      Who sits? How about we don't run our star backcourt into the ground and have both players top 10 in minutes played (Lowry top 3)? How about we don't run Joseph out there for 50% more MPG than he's ever played before? How about we don't crank Carroll's minutes way past his career highs and increase risk of injury for him? It's not a matter of sitting guys constantly. Plan out a game a week or so where you give Wright, Powell and BeBe some run in backup minutes. And on other days, have them playing down in the D-League.

      We don't need to carve out consistent minutes on a night to night basis for these guys yet. But real NBA action is a huge advantage in development.
      Bingo. The last line is the entire point of having a D-L team, so that you can get them good minutes without sacrificing wins.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #48
        LJ2 wrote: View Post
        I think Powell, Wright and Bebe, have all proven they are fairly NBA ready, so at this point D-League is just being used to keep them in game shape. They really don't have as much to "learn" from D-League as does someone like Bruno, imo. I don't think them missing D-League games at this point is hurting their development, but as Apollo mentioned there just isn't minutes available for them on a roster that is trying to contend.
        JV got hurt vs Chicago in the first Q - how many minutes would be reasonable for Bebe to play as Biyombo's back-up over the final 3 Q? How about the next game?

        Because the reality is that Bebe got zero minutes vs the Bulls and played only 3 against the Bucks. Missed opportunities are there. Bebe was at the game and dressed both times. DNP-CD and 3 MP as the only guy on the bench who is really a C.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #49
          Barolt wrote: View Post
          These things shouldn't override organizational needs, like developing young talent. The reason people keep bringing up the Spurs is because that's the goal, to become the Spurs and be that top notch organization. You get there by expecting more from your coach and your players, by putting the organization's goals before individual's goals.
          We don't live in an ideal world. Sure it shouldn't, I agree but what should or shouldn't happen is different than what is likely to happen due to human nature. I don't fault Casey for playing for his career and if Ujiri doesn't like it he should give him a longer deal or show him the door. The ball is in Ujiri's court here. If Casey needs to perform to keep his job then you can't fault him for prioritizing that over development.
          DanH wrote: View Post
          Who sits? How about we don't run our star backcourt into the ground and have both players top 10 in minutes played (Lowry top 3)? How about we don't run Joseph out there for 50% more MPG than he's ever played before?
          How about we try to view this from the viewpoints of those making the calls and not those watching this as spectators? I've told you why they're probably being played heavily and it makes sense from the decision makers viewpoint.

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          • #50
            Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

            Yes.



            That was easy.
            Two beer away from being two beers away.

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            • #51
              Apollo wrote: View Post
              We don't live in an ideal world. Sure it shouldn't, I agree but what should or shouldn't happen is different than what is likely to happen due to human nature. I don't fault Casey for playing for his career and if Ujiri doesn't like it he should give him a longer deal or show him the door. The ball is in Ujiri's court here. If Casey needs to perform to keep his job then you can't fault him for prioritizing that over development.

              How about we try to view this from the viewpoints of those making the calls and not those watching this as spectators? I've told you why they're probably being played heavily and it makes sense from the decision makers viewpoint.
              The thing is, the idea of playing young players in the NBA isn't exclusive to teams at the top(Spurs and Warriors do it), or teams at the bottom(76ers and Lakers do it), or teams in the middle(Wizards and Pistons do it). In fact, it seems like a very small minority of teams don't do it, and the teams that do are rewarded. The fact is, while D-League minutes are valuable, you'll never truly know what you have in any prospect until they get significant, meaningful minutes at the NBA level. The sooner you do that, the more opportunities you have to develop those players on their rookie contracts.

              The reality is, we've used up a year of Powell, Wright, and Bebe's contracts this season and really don't have much to show for it.

              That matters too.
              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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              • #52
                Axel wrote: View Post
                Biggest issue I have is that the players in question (Powell, Wright, Bebe) aren't actually playing in the D-League all that much.

                Bebe has played 10 games. Powell 8. Wright 15.

                So in total court time, Powell and Bebe are actually ranked 13th and 14th on the 905s at 317 and 250 minutes. Wright is 7th with 536 minutes.

                With the Raps, Wright has 18 games for 78 mins (bringing his combined season total to 714 mp). Bebe has 152 mins in 22 games (for a combined 402 mp). Powell has 269 in 33 NBA games (for a combined 586).

                That means there are 20 NBA rookies with more NBA minutes than Wright has combined minutes. 25 ahead of Powell and 29 ahead of Bebe (again, comparing to rookies just NBA minutes).

                The D League is great, but when these guys are called up and getting DNP-CDs, it doesn't help as much as it could.
                When you have 5-6 rookies like this, this is what happens

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                • #53
                  Barolt wrote: View Post
                  The reality is, every team ahead of us in the standings has given more minutes to more guys this season.

                  Norman Powell just crossed the 250 minutes mark to give us 11 guys over that number.

                  The Spurs have 14 guys who've played at least 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 672.

                  The Warriors have 12 guys who've played 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 650.

                  The Cavs have 13 guys who've played 250 minutes, and the guy in 11th place has played 379.

                  Now, you say those teams generate more garbage time than us so they can afford it. How about a team in the middle of the playoff race?

                  The Pistons have played 19-year old Stanley Johnson 1430 minutes, 13 guys over 250 minutes.

                  The Wizards have played 20-year old Kelly Oubre 568 minutes.

                  Oubre and Johnson are both younger, and were less experienced going into the season, than every single player on our 15-man roster.
                  Again. Important thing here is context.

                  Warriors and Spurs constantly blow out their competition and most of their games are decided before the 4th quarter. I guess we could play young guys more, but that would be result in a whole lot of losses. Since every single one of our games go down to the wire

                  The cavs have 13 guys who've played 250 mjns, but they are all literally veteran old guys. The youngest guy who's played at least 250 mins for them is Kyrie Irving...
                  So if your using the cavs as a reason to play the young guys more. I don't see your point

                  And the Pistons and wiz literally have a need at the positions those players play. Of coarse they are going to get minutes. Where we have a legit 9 man rotation where it is extremely difficult for a rookie to enter.

                  It's extremely difficult to balance youth and winning. Only the Spurs have really done it correctly. And I'd say we do an okay job at it this far


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                  I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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                  • #54
                    It will never be fast enough.

                    If there were internet forums around in 1980 I'm sure there would have been Lakers fans complaining about how Magic was being brought along too slowly.


                    Don't forget that CoJo, Ross, JV and Biyombo aren't exactly old experienced vets.
                    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                    • #55
                      Axel wrote: View Post
                      And that is where the Raps have failed. Our best prospects have been stuck in no mans land; not getting much minutes with the Raps or the 905s. So while having the D-League team is great, we are far from maximizing its use. It's a 50 game season in the DL, and our three closest prospects have played 33 games combined there. It's a missed opportunity.
                      How many "prospects" or developing players do teams have?

                      If you count JV and Ross, who are maybe old enough now not to call prospects (and thats with a shit tonne of minutes), you have a pretty long ass list on the raptors.

                      Seeing as the raps are a contender, winning a lot of games, but still carry on the roster on any given day, 5-6 young, unproven rooks/young guys, and seeing as a couple of them are flat out, and I mean absolute flat out experiments, how can here be such a negative critique?

                      Exactly how the fuck, and where the fuck do you get all these guys NBA minutes and not screw up your main goal of winning games. I havent looked, but i'd bet the Spurs don't have the petri dish of rooks and freaks toronto has. I'd bet the have maybe 2 prospects that are serious prospects. Toronto still seems to be floating through 5-6....

                      The d-league is where your guys go so you can keep an eye and avoid the fucking headache that is europe, both contractually and competitively should they start dangling contracts. Thats all it is.

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                      • #56
                        yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                        Again. Important thing here is context.

                        Warriors and Spurs constantly blow out their competition and most of their games are decided before the 4th quarter. I guess we could play young guys more, but that would be result in a whole lot of losses. Since every single one of our games go down to the wire

                        The cavs have 13 guys who've played 250 mjns, but they are all literally veteran old guys. The youngest guy who's played at least 250 mins for them is Kyrie Irving...
                        So if your using the cavs as a reason to play the young guys more. I don't see your point

                        And the Pistons and wiz literally have a need at the positions those players play. Of coarse they are going to get minutes. Where we have a legit 9 man rotation where it is extremely difficult for a rookie to enter.

                        It's extremely difficult to balance youth and winning. Only the Spurs have really done it correctly. And I'd say we do an okay job at it this far


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        There are zero organizations in the NBA for whom the 11th player in minutes has played less minutes than Powell(11th on our team) has this season. There is one organization in the NBA for whom the 12th player in minutes has played less than Powell has this season(Portland). Portland's top 11 guys in minutes have all played at least 59 of their 68 games, so they have had no health issues all season.

                        Literally, every team in the league plays their deep bench guys more than we do.
                        twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                        • #57
                          Mess wrote: View Post
                          It will never be fast enough.

                          If there were internet forums around in 1980 I'm sure there would have been Lakers fans complaining about how Magic was being brought along too slowly.


                          Don't forget that CoJo, Ross, JV and Biyombo aren't exactly old experienced vets.
                          JV is having the best season a Raptor has ever had in terms of WS/48, and is playing the least minutes per game he's played since his rookie season. Are you SURE you want to use him as your counterpoint?
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • #58
                            You want to know who spent time in the D-League on this roster, but no-one talks about it?


                            DeMarre Carroll. It's where he learned to play SF and improve his 3.... and he got called up and beasted for Utah.
                            Axel wrote:
                            Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                            KeonClark wrote:
                            We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                            KeonClark wrote:
                            I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                            Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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                            • #59
                              Barolt wrote: View Post

                              The reality is, we've used up a year of Powell, Wright, and Bebe's contracts this season and really don't have much to show for it.

                              That matters too.
                              It also matters of the suck, which two of them might, and you simply ant those contracts gone.

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                              • #60
                                Superjudge wrote: View Post
                                It also matters of the suck, which two of them might, and you simply ant those contracts gone.
                                We know nothing about what they'll be as NBA players. We don't know if they'll 'suck' or if they're solid bench guys, good starters, or even potential All-Stars. We have no idea because we haven't given them meaningful minutes in a NBA scenario to prove themselves.

                                For all we know, after we waste their rookie contracts sitting on the end of the bench, they'll go somewhere else and develop into studs when given the opportunity to do so.
                                twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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