Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

[Apollo]

JWash, I seriously don't see them playing this much if Casey is in year one of a fresh contract.

Derozan and Lowry are two of just nine players in the league logging 36MPG or more.

[JWash]

You are right, 30 MPG is too low. If I was to try an every game approach it would probably be Lowry down to 32 and DD down to 35 MPG. That means 19 minutes together.

But guess what? Even 19 isn't enough. Most teams try to play their top 2 guys together a lot, that's how you win in basketball... DeRozan and Lowry play 28 minutes per game together. That's why they have to play so much, so they can play a lot together but also still fill in individually and help create offense for the rest of the team.

And this isn't just us btw, let's look at the other top wing/backcourt duos:

Westbrook-Durant: 30.0
Steph-Klay (and remember they often sit out the 4th): 26.9
Lillard-McCollum: 23.5
Kemba-Batum: 29.2
Rose-Butler: 27.2
CP3-Redick: 27.8
Dragic-Wade: 23.9

So it looks like you want to be playing your starting backourt like at least half the game together if not more. In order for us to do that AND have at least one of them on the court at all times, they would have to play 36mpg apiece. Which is basically what they play. And people here get up in arms when we roll out one of those lineups without either of them in it, I've seen it in the game threads all the time, so that is the bare minimum.

So is it so hard to understand now why they need to play so much?

[Apollo]

See, the problem is that's not true at all. Lowry and DD just need to play their minutes with lineups that they actually work with, not with the pile of flaming garbage that is a JJ-Scola frontcourt with either C.

They're winning a lot of games. Casey's job is on the line. It doesn't need to get much more complicated than that.

The other day some guys were slamming Casey, saying he needs to go if he doesn't perform in the playoffs. Right now they're busy securing a high seed to play a weaker round one opponent and now we're gonna slam him for not putting on the breaks?

How do you know they win those games without DeRozan and Lowry playing heavy minutes? Casey is not messing around and chancing it that's for sure.

[SkywalkerAC]

I might add that the 905 and the youngins-unit have both come a long way this season. They started off the season just horrible, getting destroyed game in and game out even when all the NBA guys were playing. They've reversed that pretty well now going 12-8 over their last 20.

All these young guys have made major strides, Bhullar included.

[DanH]

It's pretty obvious to me. Late fouls, being essentially quiet on the offensive end. His only tech all year was when he was tired late in a game where he was forced to play more minutes because of call ups and injuries. They're playing Sim at the end of games instead of him... It's all there on youtube.

As far as his play for the Raps.

The only job Casey has with a team whose best player is in his prime, historically the best team in franchise history, is to win games. This is not a development team anymore. That's why they bought a d-league team. This is what the Spurs do, what Dallas does, etc... Players earn NBA minutes in the d league. That's why Powell's playing more than Bebe. Powell earned the minutes he's getting.

Bebe went from being clearly the best player on the D League team to a player who has stopped passing at the rate he was earlier in the season and has shown stamina issues. Next year his fitness has to be better if Biz goes. He's getting the best of both worlds -- floor time and experience with the team and minutes and individual coaching with the D League team. A D League team that has gotten 2 guys NBA contracts and coached Powell into a semi rotation player.

People complain about Casey's skills developing players. Players are clearly improving and developing with the 905. But it's a bad thing that players are getting their work done with the D League team? SMH

Technically, Casey's job is to win games, in the playoffs. Sure, you have to get there but a little rest here and there for our top players isn't going to send us tumbling out of home court, let alone the top 8.

And one could easily argue that a) having more rest for top players and b) having valuable experience given to deep bench players in case they are needed in the playoffs due to foul trouble or injury, are more valuable to a team's playoff chances than eking out every possible win.

[blackjitsu]

I have.

I can very confidently say this doesn't appear to be true, at least to me. I can also very confidently say that the latter part is just painfully untrue (especially given that they're very careful with Sim's minutes as he tires pretty fast; there have been a few games that I've been at where I can say that he doesn't return for full quarters (usually the second) outside of foul issues).

In terms of the OP; yes the D-League is a viable way to develop young players but only up to a point. Hopefully, with a change in the CBA or more teams getting their own D-League franchise; they can afford to play the players more which would then attract better players (as most players will choose to play overseas for more money).

I do think they should play more consistent spot minutes. The fact that Bebe has played a combined 3 minutes in the last two games (with zero minutes in the game that JV actually got hurt) is honestly alarming (at least to me).

It's pretty obvious to me. Late fouls, being essentially quiet on the offensive end. His only tech all year was when he was tired late in a game where he was forced to play more minutes because of call ups and injuries. They're playing Sim at the end of games instead of him... It's all there on youtube.

As far as his play for the Raps.

The only job Casey has with a team whose best player is in his prime, historically the best team in franchise history, is to win games. This is not a development team anymore. That's why they bought a d-league team. This is what the Spurs do, what Dallas does, etc... Players earn NBA minutes in the d league. That's why Powell's playing more than Bebe. Powell earned the minutes he's getting.

Bebe went from being clearly the best player on the D League team to a player who has stopped passing at the rate he was earlier in the season and has shown stamina issues. Next year his fitness has to be better if Biz goes. He's getting the best of both worlds -- floor time and experience with the team and minutes and individual coaching with the D League team. A D League team that has gotten 2 guys NBA contracts and coached Powell into a semi rotation player.

People complain about Casey's skills developing players. Players are clearly improving and developing with the 905. But it's a bad thing that players are getting their work done with the D League team? SMH

[DanH]

Most of us generally agree that this team should ideally always have at least one of Lowry/DD on the floor right? But we also know that they play best when they play together because of the way their games feed off each other right?

Well here's the little "problem" with that.

If you were to reduce Lowry/DD to 30 minutes per game like some are suggesting. In order for at least one to be on for all 48 minutes, they can only play 12 minutes together. This does not seem like a particularly wise move to only have your two best players on at the same time for 12 minutes of a game.

However at 35 minutes they can play 22 minutes together which is close to half the game. Which makes more sense.

You are right, 30 MPG is too low. If I was to try an every game approach it would probably be Lowry down to 32 and DD down to 35 MPG. That means 19 minutes together.

[JWash]

Most of us generally agree that this team should ideally always have at least one of Lowry/DD on the floor right? But we also know that they play best when they play together because of the way their games feed off each other right?

Well here's the little "problem" with that.

If you were to reduce Lowry/DD to 30 minutes per game like some are suggesting. In order for at least one to be on for all 48 minutes, they can only play 12 minutes together. This does not seem like a particularly wise move to only have your two best players on at the same time for 12 minutes of a game.

However at 35 minutes they can play 22 minutes together which is close to half the game. Which makes more sense.

[DanH]

I lowered their average minutes to 30 and 32 for argument's sake and there still isn't any room in the rotation other than a few minutes. And this idea of just resting our best guys against "weaker" teams... when did we become Golden State? Even they don't do that until the game is closed out. You can't just rest guys against weaker teams, this is the NBA, any team can beat you on any given night, you need to play your best to ensure as many wins and as high of a seed as possible.

How many additional losses do you think would come from playing DD and Lowry 25 minutes instead of 40 against the bottom third of their schedule?

[A.I]

See, the problem is that's not true at all. Lowry and DD just need to play their minutes with lineups that they actually work with, not with the pile of flaming garbage that is a JJ-Scola frontcourt with either C.

This is also true.

[DanH]

See the problem is the Raptors play so badly against weaker opponents that in order to win, Lowry and DD needs to play 35+ mins.

See, the problem is that's not true at all. Lowry and DD just need to play their minutes with lineups that they actually work with, not with the pile of flaming garbage that is a JJ-Scola frontcourt with either C.

[A.I]

We can't fit Wright, Powell and BeBe into a regular rotation barring injuries. This is obvious.

But semi-regular? You're telling me that once a week we can't take the weakest opponent and run our usual rotation 15 minutes tighter to give each of those guys a decent run at the NBA level while giving our main guys an easy night, especially in back to backs?

Cutting Lowry and DD's minutes by 15 in one game out of three (on average, I imagine there would be weeks where we play a bunch of easy opponents and weeks where we need everyone on board) would move their average MPG from ~40 to ~35, while still playing them a lot against the opponents where we need them. They'd still play 25 minutes or so on their "off nights." Harder to do so with JV/Bismack, but injuries have actually provided significant opportunity this year. And it wouldn't hurt for one of JV or BB to get the night off whenever we play a back to back.

That gets the rookies some real run against NBA quality opponents, on a fairly regular basis, and they spend the rest of their time in the D-League working on their games and staying in shape.

It's really not that difficult to find semi-regular minutes for developing players.

Of course, having a reasonable rotation where we capitalize on Lowry and DD's minutes instead of weighing them down with Scola for long stretches would also help with the average margin and ease with which you bring those young guys in without risking many additional losses.

See the problem is the Raptors play so badly against weaker opponents that in order to win, Lowry and DD needs to play 35+ mins.

[Just Is]

Have you seen him play in the D League? Stamina is an issue with the kid. At 10 minutes they get prime Bebe. At 15 there appears to be a decline... At 20, he's painful to watch. Sim Bhullar plays more late game minutes than him because of this...Sim Bhullar.

I have.

I can very confidently say this doesn't appear to be true, at least to me. I can also very confidently say that the latter part is just painfully untrue (especially given that they're very careful with Sim's minutes as he tires pretty fast; there have been a few games that I've been at where I can say that he doesn't return for full quarters (usually the second) outside of foul issues).

In terms of the OP; yes the D-League is a viable way to develop young players but only up to a point. Hopefully, with a change in the CBA or more teams getting their own D-League franchise; they can afford to play the players more which would then attract better players (as most players will choose to play overseas for more money).

I do think they should play more consistent spot minutes. The fact that Bebe has played a combined 3 minutes in the last two games (with zero minutes in the game that JV actually got hurt) is honestly alarming (at least to me).

[JWash]

We can't fit Wright, Powell and BeBe into a regular rotation barring injuries. This is obvious.

But semi-regular? You're telling me that once a week we can't take the weakest opponent and run our usual rotation 15 minutes tighter to give each of those guys a decent run at the NBA level while giving our main guys an easy night, especially in back to backs?

Cutting Lowry and DD's minutes by 15 in one game out of three (on average, I imagine there would be weeks where we play a bunch of easy opponents and weeks where we need everyone on board) would move their average MPG from ~40 to ~35, while still playing them a lot against the opponents where we need them. They'd still play 25 minutes or so on their "off nights." Harder to do so with JV/Bismack, but injuries have actually provided significant opportunity this year. And it wouldn't hurt for one of JV or BB to get the night off whenever we play a back to back.

That gets the rookies some real run against NBA quality opponents, on a fairly regular basis, and they spend the rest of their time in the D-League working on their games and staying in shape.

It's really not that difficult to find semi-regular minutes for developing players.

Of course, having a reasonable rotation where we capitalize on Lowry and DD's minutes instead of weighing them down with Scola for long stretches would also help with the average margin and ease with which you bring those young guys in without risking many additional losses.

I lowered their average minutes to 30 and 32 for argument's sake and there still isn't any room in the rotation other than a few minutes. And this idea of just resting our best guys against "weaker" teams... when did we become Golden State? Even they don't do that until the game is closed out. You can't just rest guys against weaker teams, this is the NBA, any team can beat you on any given night, you need to play your best to ensure as many wins and as high of a seed as possible.

[DanH]

We can't fit Wright, Powell and BeBe into a regular rotation barring injuries. This is obvious.

But semi-regular? You're telling me that once a week we can't take the weakest opponent and run our usual rotation 15 minutes tighter to give each of those guys a decent run at the NBA level while giving our main guys an easy night, especially in back to backs?

Cutting Lowry and DD's minutes by 15 in one game out of three (on average, I imagine there would be weeks where we play a bunch of easy opponents and weeks where we need everyone on board) would move their average MPG from ~40 to ~35, while still playing them a lot against the opponents where we need them. They'd still play 25 minutes or so on their "off nights." Harder to do so with JV/Bismack, but injuries have actually provided significant opportunity this year. And it wouldn't hurt for one of JV or BB to get the night off whenever we play a back to back.

That gets the rookies some real run against NBA quality opponents, on a fairly regular basis, and they spend the rest of their time in the D-League working on their games and staying in shape.

It's really not that difficult to find semi-regular minutes for developing players.

Of course, having a reasonable rotation where we capitalize on Lowry and DD's minutes instead of weighing them down with Scola for long stretches would also help with the average margin and ease with which you bring those young guys in without risking many additional losses.