Game 70 - Toronto Raptors 79 - Boston Celtics 91

[OldSkoolCool]

I don't think you can go down the list of "Max" players in the NBA the last 5 years and prove that point. Just from last year I find:

Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin

I don't see those guys taking "any bunch of scrubs" and winning games.

Kobe Bryant is ancient and took the retirement deal
Anthony has always been noted as a non-win producer
Howard is a max centre...he took the magic to the finals
Bosh is the best PF in the game (Davis is second)
Giffin is a max player offensively...its his defense that is lacking

[OldSkoolCool]

Or perhaps Jonas is coming off an injury and Casey wanted to restrict minutes and didn't really give a crap about winning the game.

But if you want to call it the new norm based on no evidence, go ahead.

Actually the JV benched for Biz has been a pattern that has slowly been developing over the past couple of months. I expect Biz to play more minutes than JV come playoffs

[DanH]

I don't think you can go down the list of "Max" players in the NBA the last 5 years and prove that point. Just from last year I find:

Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin

I don't see those guys taking "any bunch of scrubs" and winning games.

You must have missed a half decade of Raptors' basketball if you don't think Bosh can carry a garbage team to wins.

I agree with the rest, though.

[DanH]

Or perhaps Jonas is coming off an injury and Casey wanted to restrict minutes and didn't really give a crap about winning the game.

But if you want to call it the new norm based on no evidence, go ahead.

If Casey didn't give a crap about winning the game I'm sure glad he managed to saddle DeMar with 36 minutes for no reason, and CoJo with 32 minutes when he's already playing way more than he ever has before.

[Other Scott]

If Casey didn't give a crap about winning the game I'm sure glad he managed to saddle DeMar with 36 minutes for no reason, and CoJo with 32 minutes when he's already playing way more than he ever has before.

There's degrees to that. Casey's level of care about that game was higher than throwing the 905 out there for the whole thing, but obviously lower than playing Lowry or exerting Val in any way.

(Per the main page, Wolstat says JV wasn't quite 100% recovered but didn't want to get too far out of rhythm before the playoffs.)

[DanH]

There's degrees to that. Casey's level of care about that game was higher than throwing the 905 out there for the whole thing, but obviously lower than playing Lowry or exerting Val in any way.

(Per the main page, Wolstat says JV wasn't quite 100% recovered but didn't want to get too far out of rhythm before the playoffs.)

OK? If he was going to rest JV (when the team was absolute garbage with Biyombo out there) late then we were losing the game. Sure, let DD play for a while to see if he can keep us in it, but there's no reason to push him and CoJo up to 30+ minutes in a game you don't care to win.

[planetmars]

Back to the narrative that DD isn't a max player..

Here are my thoughts:

- DD is not a #1 player on a team. He's a good 2A or 2B though.
- DD's salary is not entirely based on his talent, skill or character but based on market. He's a UFA when the cap goes boom!
- DD will most likely want to come back. So its kind of a rare thing to have a guy that will be coveted in free agency that will want to be back.
- If he was let go, the Raptors would still have to remove about $10M additional cap space to get a decent free agent and renouncing all other potential free agent cap holds. That's depleting depth for a non-guarantee that someone will want to come here (remember what happened in Phoenix).
- The max will go up again the following year. So his $25M will look cheap compared to the $30-$35M contracts other will get the following year.
- DD is young, is improving, but near the end of his new deal could be declining or at least plateauing. Good thing for him is he plays an old man's game and not an athletic game.
- The only thing I'm nervous about is that the $25M contract will be difficult to trade. It would require a Rudy Gay caliber trade if he was ever on the block. Would be difficult to trade him into cap space or to get many young prospects/picks since he's not a true star. That's a risk going forward. But Masai has already been able to create something out of nothing so not too worried.

[Superjudge]

If Casey didn't give a crap about winning the game I'm sure glad he managed to saddle DeMar with 36 minutes for no reason, and CoJo with 32 minutes when he's already playing way more than he ever has before.

Ugh.

Professional athletes man..... 40 mins would still just be a work out to them. Get it through your heads, minutes don't kill you, lack of recovery does. As the season winds down, they have already charted out schedules for guys to get rest, you can guarantee that.

ever wonder why players in the NHL always say they would prefer the old 72 game schedule? Its because that allowed them one more extra day off, with more "consecutive rest" days during the year, it make sa massive difference. DD, Lowry, Joseph....these guys are all elite athletes, playing 35+ minutes in a night wont bug them a bit, its the lack of rest, and I'm sure you will see the main raps stars getting more off days over the next few weeks.

[JWash]

Ugh.

Professional athletes man..... 40 mins would still just be a work out to them. Get it through your heads, minutes don't kill you, lack of recovery does. As the season winds down, they have already charted out schedules for guys to get rest, you can guarantee that.

ever wonder why players in the NHL always say they would prefer the old 72 game schedule? Its because that allowed them one more extra day off, with more "consecutive rest" days during the year, it make sa massive difference. DD, Lowry, Joseph....these guys are all elite athletes, playing 35+ minutes in a night wont bug them a bit, its the lack of rest, and I'm sure you will see the main raps stars getting more off days over the next few weeks.

This is actually a really good point.

[Joey]

Ugh.

Professional athletes man..... 40 mins would still just be a work out to them. Get it through your heads, minutes don't kill you, lack of recovery does. As the season winds down, they have already charted out schedules for guys to get rest, you can guarantee that.

ever wonder why players in the NHL always say they would prefer the old 72 game schedule? Its because that allowed them one more extra day off, with more "consecutive rest" days during the year, it make sa massive difference. DD, Lowry, Joseph....these guys are all elite athletes, playing 35+ minutes in a night wont bug them a bit, its the lack of rest, and I'm sure you will see the main raps stars getting more off days over the next few weeks.

But to Dans point, if Demar had gotten more rest last night, then an extra "recovery day" wouldn't be required. Managing minutes certainly plays into a players seasonal longevity, especially when they get past 25 years old. Resting IS Recovery.

And you can't really compare NHL to NBA, since they already have a longer Regular Season than the NBA, with the same amount of games, and those guys float around on ice, where as these guys actually run up and down the court. Less trips up and down the court is nothing but a good thing in terms of "recovery".

[DanH]

But to Dans point, if Demar had gotten more rest last night, then an extra "recovery day" wouldn't be required. Managing minutes certainly plays into a players seasonal longevity, especially when they get past 25 years old. Resting IS Recovery.

And you can't really compare NHL to NBA, since they already have a longer Regular Season than the NBA, with the same amount of games, and those guys float around on ice, where as these guys actually run up and down the court. Less trips up and down the court is nothing but a good thing in terms of "recovery".

It's not so much the on-ice activity as the on-ice time. The heaviest minutes forwards in the league are around 20 MPG, with the heaviest minutes D under 30. Nobodies hitting 40 minutes in the NHL, let alone averaging it.

[3inthekeon]

if Demar had gotten more rest last night, then an extra "recovery day" wouldn't be required. .

Maybe yes, maybe no. There are many factors, lack of sufficient sleep may well be most crucial. Extra minutes have nothing to do with that. Days off can, depending on how the player and team handles that time off.

Yeah, the extra minutes in games can lead to greatly increased risk of injury, if the body is fatigued. Impossible for us to tell how fatigued players are though.

[JWash]

Maybe yes, maybe no. There are many factors, lack of sufficient sleep may well be most crucial. Extra minutes have nothing to do with that. Days off can, depending on how the player and team handles that time off.

Yeah, the extra minutes in games can lead to greatly increased risk of injury, if the body is fatigued. Impossible for us to tell how fatigued players are though.

Yeah it's really just flat incorrect to try and boil it all down to minutes, when they might not even be the biggest factor or even a significant factor at all. There are so many other variables.

[S.R.]

Well the extra recovery time is a moot point because they don't have that, either. So in a world where extra recovery time is not afforded by the schedule (unless you're going to sit guys out of games entirely with much more regularity), the next thing you have to do is restrict minutes.

The best coaches in the NBA are already doing this - Pops has done it for years while overseeing the longest stretch of sustained success in the modern NBA. So to all the Doug Smith's and SJ's who say modern athletes are fine with the minutes and mileage on their bodies, my simple response is the best coach in the NBA disagrees with you.

This is especially pertinent for the Raptors, who flamed out down the stretch last year and who's best player was completely ineffective in the playoffs due to accumulated nagging injuries and probably plain old exhaustion. For Lowry's part, he worked in the summer and came back in better shape, but for the team's part, making sure players are healthy and we'll rested down the stretch through DNP's and restricted minutes is absolutely the right thing to do.

[planetmars]

I'd rather have fatigue over rust though. I'm not a professional athlete of course, but I do better when I've played the previous day.. based on routine, etc. If I take a day or two off and try again - it's harder.

Hitting the gym isn't the same either. The energy you put into the workout compared to a game is different.

So from an outsider, I would imagine playing 20mpg instead of 35mpg vs not playing at all would be better.

Besides everyone gets a day rest between games in the playoffs anyway. The biggest risk to playing over not playing is getting injured but that risk is always there.. and it could happen in practice too.