Could this Raptor team beat the Vince Carter's Second Round team ?

[Apollo]

JV had a per of 22 this year at age 23, while AD had a per of 14 while playing more mins at age 32. Not even close and that experience/toughness doesn't even budge it one bit. JV is better, much better.

edit: AD actually had a per of 16

It's only that simple if you want to totally disregard how those numbers were generated. The circumstances around both are extremely different. Ebrian did a great job explaining.

You can't just slap down to numbers and say, 'see, JV wins.'

The 22 PER starts dropping the second or third time he gets the taste slapped out of his mouth. Not to mention there's no chance in hell of him getting position to rock the offensive glass on Davis and Oak. He hasn't played anyone like these guys.

*I'm a JV fan.

[S.R.]

I agree.. every good team in those days were focused on the paint and protecting the paint, not with tall quick guys but huge strong men. Different era. We've been watching JV dominate the paint because he's faced other raw big men in Whiteside and Myles Turner. You can't compare this.. Davis (and not to mention in tandem with Oakley), would have absolutely destroyed JV and it's not even close. I'd expect that front court to outscore and outrebound this Raptors team by a huge margin.

I do think though that the old team didn't really have a long defender that wuold have given DeRozan as many problems as he's had for the last 12 games. So DeMar would have a bit more of his way, but then you look at the flip of it, we'd have no one to cover Vince. DeMar might average 25 ppg against the old team but Vince might average 35.

The Alvin Williams - Kyle Lowry match up is pretty intriguing to me, would love to have seen that.

I'm telling you, the NBA didn't used to be full of Godzillas in the post. Keon Clark was 6'11" and 220 and perfectly capable, with his build, of having a solid NBA career in that era (him being a headcase is another discussion). JV loves playing physical basketball and he loves matching up against other big C's - those have been the games where he looks his best, banging in the post. Biyombo's on board, too. Scola would be fine. I bet JT would be fine. Patterson would have to play SF in that era and would likely be just fine at that position which tended to have more size and less speed back then.

JV at 7' 245 has a big height advantage over Oak (6'8" 245). Scola and JT, size-wise, would both match up with Antonio Davis. Scola is fine with gritty basketball, JT I haven't seen enough to say. Biyombo would be fine against Oakley or Davis.

[Atothe]

It's only that simple if you want to totally disregard how those numbers were generated. The circumstances around both are extremely different. Ebrian did a great job explaining.

You can't just slap down to numbers and say, 'see, JV wins.'

The 22 PER starts dropping the second or third time he gets the taste slapped out of his mouth. Not to mention there's no chance in hell of him getting position to rock the offensive glass on Davis and Oak. He hasn't played anyone like these guys.

Nostalgia and perception has nothing to do with this at all?

[Apollo]

None. 0%. Your advanced stat doesn't cut it when we're talking different eras.

JV hasn't been tested; not the test in talking about. Who's in his face? Who's hard fouling him. Who's playing dirty with him? Who's working him over in the post? No one.

[Atothe]

None. 0%. Your advanced stat doesn't cut it when we're talking different eras.

JV hasn't been tested. Who's in his face? Who's hard fouling him. Who's playing dirty with him? Who's working him over in the post? No one.

Then why are we comparing these two at all? Clearly the eye test is flawed too

[white men can't jump]

The only thing that becomes clear in this thread is that most fans still elevate that 00-01 team way higher than they deserve to be.

[S.R.]

The only thing that becomes clear in this thread is that most fans still elevate that 00-01 team way higher than they deserve to be.

A 42-40 team never got so much love (from myself included).

[Apollo]

Then why are we comparing these two at all? Clearly the eye test is flawed too

Because someone created a thread asking who wins between these two teams. We have no choice but to compare.

Kyle takes Alvin. Vince takes DeMar. New JYD takes Old JYD. Oakley goes on a rampage and we're left with JV vs. Davis which would be influenced greatly by Oak and Pat. The benches are tough to figure out because it would come down to adjustments. We know how good Casey is at that... I will say that Lenny was far to passive and Dwane is not.

[Nilanka]

A 42-40 team never got so much love (from myself included).

Didn't they go 45-37 in 2000-01?

Either way, a lot less than 56 wins.

[white men can't jump]

Because someone created a thread asking who wins between these two teams. We have no choice but to compare.

Kyle takes Alvin. Vince takes DeMar. New JYD takes Old JYD. Oakley goes on a rampage and we're left with JV vs. Davis which would be influenced greatly by Oak and Pat. The benches are tough to figure out because it would come down to adjustments. We know how good Casey is at that... I will say that Lenny was far to passive and Dwane is not.

How does Oak go on a rampage? His biggest value was in low post D and defensive rebounding. Pat pulls him away from the bucket and he's too slow to do anything on the perimeter. Takes him out of position on defensive boards too, leaving JV battling Davis one on one. Oak could actually be a big time disaster in such a matchup. Offensively he brings little value as a slow footed shooter of long 2s who isn't in a position to really crash the offensive glass a lot either.

[S.R.]

Didn't they go 45-37 in 2000-01?

Either way, a lot less than 56 wins.

Yes, wrong year on my part.

[RaptorsVictim]

Excuse me ?
Alvin, Davis, Jerom Williams, Carter and Curry.
Man, you are just kidding.
Carter's team was really good at both ends. Carter's team was not a jump shooting team.

No argument here, Carter's team in 5.

[DanH]

Am I reading arguments here that going up against a physical aggressive player would cause JV to play worse than usual? Are you crazy? JV LOVES playing that style of game. Smack him hard, he lights right up. Guarantee if we somehow got to see this imaginary scenario play out, we'd see JV's best basketball yet if Davis and Oak played rough with him.

[S.R.]

Am I reading arguments here that going up against a physical aggressive player would cause JV to play worse than usual? Are you crazy? JV LOVES playing that style of game. Smack him hard, he lights right up. Guarantee if we somehow got to see this imaginary scenario play out, we'd see JV's best basketball yet if Davis and Oak played rough with him.

I just lost a post listing half of the starting C's from that season. Let's stop pretending that every post player was Godzilla on roids in that era. Jeff Foster, Raef LaFrentz, etc. ffs. Nowitzki played some 5 then, Duncan and Chandler played then and now.

JV and Biyombo both love physical play. Scola is fine with gritty ball. JT could adjust to that era. Patterson would be a SF in that era.

Size-wise, the current team actually has a better depth of size up front. JV has a huge height advantage over Oakley, loves physical play (e.g. these playoffs), and weighs in at a similar 245.

[RaptorsVictim]

Am I reading arguments here that going up against a physical aggressive player would cause JV to play worse than usual? Are you crazy? JV LOVES playing that style of game. Smack him hard, he lights right up. Guarantee if we somehow got to see this imaginary scenario play out, we'd see JV's best basketball yet if Davis and Oak played rough with him.

My argument is not about JV, it is about the whole team in general. Man Carter's team had heart. I am not happy with Derozan or Carroll and those two starters are the major difference between those two teams.
On the other hand, you forgot about coaching Lenny Willkins is far better than Casey.