Offseason Trade Proposal Thread

[Chr1s1anL]

I just feel like we have a clear need to get more 3 point shooters the way the league is going and after the way cleveland beat us. We already have too many players who play huge minutes and dont shoot threes. How many times did we see the ball swing around to someone for the perfect wide open 3 after great ball movement and they just dont take it cause they cant make it. We need more shooters. Giving up ross for young makes us worse in that area i think.

Yeah, Gallo is another guy that I think can be had with a package around the 9th pick. Prefer Young because of Gallo's injury history and Young being the better defender.

[Chr1s1anL]

Young beating the Raptors on both sides of the ball. Most of this is without having a play ran for him. I think Carroll and Young would be great glue guys around Lowry/DD/JV

[Chr1s1anL]

Ross for Young isn't a sideways move: it's an upgrade, because - and this needs to be repeated as much as necessary - Young is a better player than Ross is. That's why the #9 pick is being discussed in this; Brooklyn doesn't do the deal without it. Sure, it would be better if Brooklyn agreed on Ross and #27 for Young (and I suspect Masai is pushing it hard because Brooklyn does not have a lot of natural trading partners to get into the draft at all).

But, realistically, #9 is fine if we keep #27, because the draft tiers this year are basically

- Simmons
- Ingram
- Murray/Hield/Dunn/Chriss/Bender/Brown
- about thirty guys who will top out at "starter or rotational player"
- the crap at the end

It's a top-heavy draft, and not a strong one either, and the difference between #27 and #9 is much smaller than it would normally be. This year is a year where it makes more sense than it usually would to trade #9 away if we keep #27.

If they wanted #9 you'd have to throw Bojan IMO. Bojan makes up for the floor spacing that Ross brought.

[white men can't jump]

I sincerely hope Masai isn't spending his time trying to figure out how to get Thad Young....

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[magoon]

I just feel like we have a clear need to get more 3 point shooters the way the league is going and after the way cleveland beat us.

We shot .370 on threes this season, which was fifth-best in the league. Ross is a streaky shooter and a streaky defender; he's not going to move the needle that much. We can find a gunner to replace him as needed.

[magoon]

For me the trading of Ross for Young seems like a decent sideways move.

Ross for Young isn't a sideways move: it's an upgrade, because - and this needs to be repeated as much as necessary - Young is a better player than Ross is. That's why the #9 pick is being discussed in this; Brooklyn doesn't do the deal without it. Sure, it would be better if Brooklyn agreed on Ross and #27 for Young (and I suspect Masai is pushing it hard because Brooklyn does not have a lot of natural trading partners to get into the draft at all).

But, realistically, #9 is fine if we keep #27, because the draft tiers this year are basically

- Simmons
- Ingram
- Murray/Hield/Dunn/Chriss/Bender/Brown
- about thirty guys who will top out at "starter or rotational player"
- the crap at the end

It's a top-heavy draft, and not a strong one either, and the difference between #27 and #9 is much smaller than it would normally be. This year is a year where it makes more sense than it usually would to trade #9 away if we keep #27.

[Machine]

For me the trading of Ross for Young seems like a decent sideways move. We can argue black and blue about whether or not it raises our ceiling to true contention level. What it really does is fill a position of need with a proven NBA player, while sacrificing a player at a position in which we currently have too many players and not enough minutes to go around. We may not even have to replace Ross with another move, as Powell, Cojo, and Wright can fill the minutes Ross would demand. It may not significantly raise the ceiling of the team, but I think it would make us more competitive next season. Still, I wouldn't involve Patterson or the 9th pick, but that's me. And again, I would kick the tires on other players first, players I feel might require the 9th pick as well in order to acquire.

I just feel like we have a clear need to get more 3 point shooters the way the league is going and after the way cleveland beat us. We already have too many players who play huge minutes and dont shoot threes. How many times did we see the ball swing around to someone for the perfect wide open 3 after great ball movement and they just dont take it cause they cant make it. We need more shooters. Giving up ross for young makes us worse in that area i think.

[JawsGT]

For me the trading of Ross for Young seems like a decent sideways move. We can argue black and blue about whether or not it raises our ceiling to true contention level. What it really does is fill a position of need with a proven NBA player, while sacrificing a player at a position in which we currently have too many players and not enough minutes to go around. We may not even have to replace Ross with another move, as Powell, Cojo, and Wright can fill the minutes Ross would demand. It may not significantly raise the ceiling of the team, but I think it would make us more competitive next season. Still, I wouldn't involve Patterson or the 9th pick, but that's me. And again, I would kick the tires on other players first, players I feel might require the 9th pick as well in order to acquire.

[Chr1s1anL]

I agree that we shouldn't trade Patterson for Thad Young - Patterson is too important for the team - but people claiming that the #9 pick is an "overpay" for Thad Young are out of their heads. Thad Young is a starting-quality power forward in the NBA. It's not really fair to just go to Basketballreference and say "he isn't an efficient player" because he's spent the last four years being a primary scoring option - which he was never intended to be - on some truly terrible basketball teams (Philly, Minnesota and Brooklyn). Young is a good rebounder, a decent defender, has good ball IQ, and when he's not a #1 option can provide good floor spacing because he's very good from midrange. He'd be quite good for Toronto.

With this year's #9 pick, an NBA starter is about the ceiling you can expect unless one of the top 8 players drop, and most of the top 8 will probably end up being solid starters with maybe one or two All-Star appearances if you get lucky. After #8, you just want someone who ends up being a decent player. But Thad Young already is a decent player. Trading #9 for Young is effectively trading the pick for, say, a player who is about 95% of the maximum ceiling of the pick. Domantis Sabonis is going to be a good player, but it's very unlikely he will ever be appreciably better than Young is right now. Ditto Deyonta Davis. Ditto Jakob Poeltl. It is conceivably possible that Skal Labissiere could end up being a better player than Thad Young, but it is also far more likely that Skal crashes and burns given how miserably he played in college.

And, again: Young is a good player right now. You don't have to wait three or four years for him to figure the NBA out. He already balls in this league, and he's only 27 so he's not going to start tailing off before his current contract ends.

Oh, and his current contract is good, don't forget. Guaranteed for 16-17 and 17-18 at $12.5m per year, then 18-19 for $13m (although that's probably a player option). In the current NBA salary spectrum that's a relative bargain. He's a much better option for us than, say, Amir Johnson, and Amir is making $12m a year because that's the baseline cost for a starting-quality power forward in this league now; Young is better than Amir but costs the same amount of money.

I'm not saying we should trade for Young, not necessarily. But people do overrate the pick's value, because they say "okay, DeMar was drafted #9, and so was Andre Drummond and Joakim Noah and Gordon Hayward, you can get a superstar at 9!" Which is true. But you can also draft, say, DJ Augustin. Or Ike Diogu. Or Trey Burke. Or Noah Vonleh.

A lot of Rap fans have faith in Masai and Jeff Weltman to draft well, and I do think both of them are good at drafting - even if you skip over Masai's mostly-successful drafting with Denver (Kenneth Faried and Evan Fournier are both good value picks in the 20s) and the success of 2015 (both Wright and Powell are very solid picks, even if a lot of Raptors fans overrate their success presently), you have to remember that Weltman drafted Giannis Antetokounmpo when he was still with the Bucks, and Masai was desperately trying to trade into the draft because he wanted Giannis very badly. These are guys who have a good eye for basketball talent and who tend to prefer to use their picks when they can. And they are considering trading the #9 pick. That tells you something about the quality of this draft.

Very well put.

[magoon]

I agree that we shouldn't trade Patterson for Thad Young - Patterson is too important for the team - but people claiming that the #9 pick is an "overpay" for Thad Young are out of their heads. Thad Young is a starting-quality power forward in the NBA. It's not really fair to just go to Basketballreference and say "he isn't an efficient player" because he's spent the last four years being a primary scoring option - which he was never intended to be - on some truly terrible basketball teams (Philly, Minnesota and Brooklyn). Young is a good rebounder, a decent defender, has good ball IQ, and when he's not a #1 option can provide good floor spacing because he's very good from midrange. He'd be quite good for Toronto.

With this year's #9 pick, an NBA starter is about the ceiling you can expect unless one of the top 8 players drop, and most of the top 8 will probably end up being solid starters with maybe one or two All-Star appearances if you get lucky. After #8, you just want someone who ends up being a decent player. But Thad Young already is a decent player. Trading #9 for Young is effectively trading the pick for, say, a player who is about 95% of the maximum ceiling of the pick. Domantis Sabonis is going to be a good player, but it's very unlikely he will ever be appreciably better than Young is right now. Ditto Deyonta Davis. Ditto Jakob Poeltl. It is conceivably possible that Skal Labissiere could end up being a better player than Thad Young, but it is also far more likely that Skal crashes and burns given how miserably he played in college.

And, again: Young is a good player right now. You don't have to wait three or four years for him to figure the NBA out. He already balls in this league, and he's only 27 so he's not going to start tailing off before his current contract ends.

Oh, and his current contract is good, don't forget. Guaranteed for 16-17 and 17-18 at $12.5m per year, then 18-19 for $13m (although that's probably a player option). In the current NBA salary spectrum that's a relative bargain. He's a much better option for us than, say, Amir Johnson, and Amir is making $12m a year because that's the baseline cost for a starting-quality power forward in this league now; Young is better than Amir but costs the same amount of money.

I'm not saying we should trade for Young, not necessarily. But people do overrate the pick's value, because they say "okay, DeMar was drafted #9, and so was Andre Drummond and Joakim Noah and Gordon Hayward, you can get a superstar at 9!" Which is true. But you can also draft, say, DJ Augustin. Or Ike Diogu. Or Trey Burke. Or Noah Vonleh.

A lot of Rap fans have faith in Masai and Jeff Weltman to draft well, and I do think both of them are good at drafting - even if you skip over Masai's mostly-successful drafting with Denver (Kenneth Faried and Evan Fournier are both good value picks in the 20s) and the success of 2015 (both Wright and Powell are very solid picks, even if a lot of Raptors fans overrate their success presently), you have to remember that Weltman drafted Giannis Antetokounmpo when he was still with the Bucks, and Masai was desperately trying to trade into the draft because he wanted Giannis very badly. These are guys who have a good eye for basketball talent and who tend to prefer to use their picks when they can. And they are considering trading the #9 pick. That tells you something about the quality of this draft.

[thead]

Defensively, yeah. Not surprised either.

2Pat was a monster defensively this year. So hilariously underrated by most of our fanbase.

I've been pushing for him to start for two years. He is a great defender. The only knock I have against Patterson is his tendency to overpass. If I had a nickel for every perfect shot that guy passed up I'd have a shit load of nickels.

On a team where our offense is going to come from the guards and centre, having Carroll and Patterson is ideal, unless you get a transformational 4 I see no reason to not start him

[thead]

I should also say that dude was nearly knocking on a triple double every night just two years ago...so while I think there is a role for him in this league, I don't see the upside as being greater than the chemistry he would upset. He needs a team with solid vets, solid coaching and a defined role.

[Barolt]

So that raking says that 2pat is better than both Thad and Ibaka.

Defensively, yeah. Not surprised either.

2Pat was a monster defensively this year. So hilariously underrated by most of our fanbase.

[Chr1s1anL]

Middle of the pack. Patrick Patterson was 11th.

So that raking says that 2pat is better than both Thad and Ibaka.

[Barolt]

Where is Serge Ibaka ranked on that list?

Middle of the pack. Patrick Patterson was 11th.