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Offseason Trade Proposal Thread

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  • Barolt wrote: View Post
    With average-ish efficiency, huge usage, below average defense and high minutes. He's DeMar DeRozan: the Power Forward.
    Maybe that explains why he's in love with him
    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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    • I'd take Thaddeus Young over Sabonis or Poeltl. But I'd rather have Skal or Davis over Young.

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      • Barolt wrote: View Post
        With average-ish efficiency, huge usage, below average defense and high minutes. He's DeMar DeRozan: the Power Forward.
        His usage was the same as Scola. Player shot 30.9 percent from 3 when being guarded by Thad and 33.9 percent greater than 15ft.
        @Chr1st1anL

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          His usage was the same as Scola. Player shot 30.9 percent from 3 when being guarded by Thad and 33.9 percent greater than 15ft.
          By NylonCalculus' Opponent Production, he ranked 5th worst among PFs playing more than 1000 minutes.

          And his overall dFG% was +1%.
          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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          • I agree with whatever Barolt says...probably
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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            • At the end of the day, any trade needs to do one of two things, either improve our short term outlook or improve our long-term outlook.

              That Thad Young trade does neither. Makes us older, but doesn't fundamentally improve our ceiling.

              Maybe it makes us better in a nebulous 'Thad Young is better than our current PF options' way, but it doesn't make us better in a specific 'improve our ceiling' way. It compromises our chemistry, which was one of our strengths this year, because you can't simply evaluate the impact of any trade on that, and Thad Young certainly doesn't make us better than the Cavs, Warriors, Thunder or Spurs.

              So if the ceiling of the current roster is 5th-6th best team in the league, any potential move that makes us older needs to improve that.
              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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              • Barolt wrote: View Post
                By NylonCalculus' Opponent Production, he ranked 5th worst among PFs playing more than 1000 minutes.

                And his overall dFG% was +1%.
                Where is Serge Ibaka ranked on that list?
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  Where is Serge Ibaka ranked on that list?
                  Middle of the pack. Patrick Patterson was 11th.
                  twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                  • Barolt wrote: View Post
                    Middle of the pack. Patrick Patterson was 11th.
                    So that raking says that 2pat is better than both Thad and Ibaka.
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      So that raking says that 2pat is better than both Thad and Ibaka.
                      Defensively, yeah. Not surprised either.

                      2Pat was a monster defensively this year. So hilariously underrated by most of our fanbase.
                      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                      • I should also say that dude was nearly knocking on a triple double every night just two years ago...so while I think there is a role for him in this league, I don't see the upside as being greater than the chemistry he would upset. He needs a team with solid vets, solid coaching and a defined role.
                        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                        • Barolt wrote: View Post
                          Defensively, yeah. Not surprised either.

                          2Pat was a monster defensively this year. So hilariously underrated by most of our fanbase.
                          I've been pushing for him to start for two years. He is a great defender. The only knock I have against Patterson is his tendency to overpass. If I had a nickel for every perfect shot that guy passed up I'd have a shit load of nickels.

                          On a team where our offense is going to come from the guards and centre, having Carroll and Patterson is ideal, unless you get a transformational 4 I see no reason to not start him
                          For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                          • I agree that we shouldn't trade Patterson for Thad Young - Patterson is too important for the team - but people claiming that the #9 pick is an "overpay" for Thad Young are out of their heads. Thad Young is a starting-quality power forward in the NBA. It's not really fair to just go to Basketballreference and say "he isn't an efficient player" because he's spent the last four years being a primary scoring option - which he was never intended to be - on some truly terrible basketball teams (Philly, Minnesota and Brooklyn). Young is a good rebounder, a decent defender, has good ball IQ, and when he's not a #1 option can provide good floor spacing because he's very good from midrange. He'd be quite good for Toronto.

                            With this year's #9 pick, an NBA starter is about the ceiling you can expect unless one of the top 8 players drop, and most of the top 8 will probably end up being solid starters with maybe one or two All-Star appearances if you get lucky. After #8, you just want someone who ends up being a decent player. But Thad Young already is a decent player. Trading #9 for Young is effectively trading the pick for, say, a player who is about 95% of the maximum ceiling of the pick. Domantis Sabonis is going to be a good player, but it's very unlikely he will ever be appreciably better than Young is right now. Ditto Deyonta Davis. Ditto Jakob Poeltl. It is conceivably possible that Skal Labissiere could end up being a better player than Thad Young, but it is also far more likely that Skal crashes and burns given how miserably he played in college.

                            And, again: Young is a good player right now. You don't have to wait three or four years for him to figure the NBA out. He already balls in this league, and he's only 27 so he's not going to start tailing off before his current contract ends.

                            Oh, and his current contract is good, don't forget. Guaranteed for 16-17 and 17-18 at $12.5m per year, then 18-19 for $13m (although that's probably a player option). In the current NBA salary spectrum that's a relative bargain. He's a much better option for us than, say, Amir Johnson, and Amir is making $12m a year because that's the baseline cost for a starting-quality power forward in this league now; Young is better than Amir but costs the same amount of money.

                            I'm not saying we should trade for Young, not necessarily. But people do overrate the pick's value, because they say "okay, DeMar was drafted #9, and so was Andre Drummond and Joakim Noah and Gordon Hayward, you can get a superstar at 9!" Which is true. But you can also draft, say, DJ Augustin. Or Ike Diogu. Or Trey Burke. Or Noah Vonleh.

                            A lot of Rap fans have faith in Masai and Jeff Weltman to draft well, and I do think both of them are good at drafting - even if you skip over Masai's mostly-successful drafting with Denver (Kenneth Faried and Evan Fournier are both good value picks in the 20s) and the success of 2015 (both Wright and Powell are very solid picks, even if a lot of Raptors fans overrate their success presently), you have to remember that Weltman drafted Giannis Antetokounmpo when he was still with the Bucks, and Masai was desperately trying to trade into the draft because he wanted Giannis very badly. These are guys who have a good eye for basketball talent and who tend to prefer to use their picks when they can. And they are considering trading the #9 pick. That tells you something about the quality of this draft.

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                            • magoon wrote: View Post
                              I agree that we shouldn't trade Patterson for Thad Young - Patterson is too important for the team - but people claiming that the #9 pick is an "overpay" for Thad Young are out of their heads. Thad Young is a starting-quality power forward in the NBA. It's not really fair to just go to Basketballreference and say "he isn't an efficient player" because he's spent the last four years being a primary scoring option - which he was never intended to be - on some truly terrible basketball teams (Philly, Minnesota and Brooklyn). Young is a good rebounder, a decent defender, has good ball IQ, and when he's not a #1 option can provide good floor spacing because he's very good from midrange. He'd be quite good for Toronto.

                              With this year's #9 pick, an NBA starter is about the ceiling you can expect unless one of the top 8 players drop, and most of the top 8 will probably end up being solid starters with maybe one or two All-Star appearances if you get lucky. After #8, you just want someone who ends up being a decent player. But Thad Young already is a decent player. Trading #9 for Young is effectively trading the pick for, say, a player who is about 95% of the maximum ceiling of the pick. Domantis Sabonis is going to be a good player, but it's very unlikely he will ever be appreciably better than Young is right now. Ditto Deyonta Davis. Ditto Jakob Poeltl. It is conceivably possible that Skal Labissiere could end up being a better player than Thad Young, but it is also far more likely that Skal crashes and burns given how miserably he played in college.

                              And, again: Young is a good player right now. You don't have to wait three or four years for him to figure the NBA out. He already balls in this league, and he's only 27 so he's not going to start tailing off before his current contract ends.

                              Oh, and his current contract is good, don't forget. Guaranteed for 16-17 and 17-18 at $12.5m per year, then 18-19 for $13m (although that's probably a player option). In the current NBA salary spectrum that's a relative bargain. He's a much better option for us than, say, Amir Johnson, and Amir is making $12m a year because that's the baseline cost for a starting-quality power forward in this league now; Young is better than Amir but costs the same amount of money.

                              I'm not saying we should trade for Young, not necessarily. But people do overrate the pick's value, because they say "okay, DeMar was drafted #9, and so was Andre Drummond and Joakim Noah and Gordon Hayward, you can get a superstar at 9!" Which is true. But you can also draft, say, DJ Augustin. Or Ike Diogu. Or Trey Burke. Or Noah Vonleh.

                              A lot of Rap fans have faith in Masai and Jeff Weltman to draft well, and I do think both of them are good at drafting - even if you skip over Masai's mostly-successful drafting with Denver (Kenneth Faried and Evan Fournier are both good value picks in the 20s) and the success of 2015 (both Wright and Powell are very solid picks, even if a lot of Raptors fans overrate their success presently), you have to remember that Weltman drafted Giannis Antetokounmpo when he was still with the Bucks, and Masai was desperately trying to trade into the draft because he wanted Giannis very badly. These are guys who have a good eye for basketball talent and who tend to prefer to use their picks when they can. And they are considering trading the #9 pick. That tells you something about the quality of this draft.
                              Very well put.
                              @Chr1st1anL

                              Comment


                              • For me the trading of Ross for Young seems like a decent sideways move. We can argue black and blue about whether or not it raises our ceiling to true contention level. What it really does is fill a position of need with a proven NBA player, while sacrificing a player at a position in which we currently have too many players and not enough minutes to go around. We may not even have to replace Ross with another move, as Powell, Cojo, and Wright can fill the minutes Ross would demand. It may not significantly raise the ceiling of the team, but I think it would make us more competitive next season. Still, I wouldn't involve Patterson or the 9th pick, but that's me. And again, I would kick the tires on other players first, players I feel might require the 9th pick as well in order to acquire.

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