Masai Ujiri and The Wasserman Group Players

[Barolt]

Not necessairily.
If the player (FA) is only interested in max amount of money he can get -you are absolutely correct.
Just remember: there are D Wests in this world -he may be extreme, but lets say a FA can get 8 mil x3 yrs from 76ers or MLE x3 yrs from us or Cavs.
Competitive teams (like us) can still get a decent FA for a decent (not great) amount of money.
I'll bring back Joe J again: After being released by Nets he prob could have gotten more money from another team. Never even considered it.

Reminder: David West took that money to go play for the best coach ever, with one of the best 10 players ever, and for an organization with 5 titles in 20 years.

We ain't that.

[Axel]

Not necessairily.
If the player (FA) is only interested in max amount of money he can get -you are absolutely correct.
Just remember: there are D Wests in this world -he may be extreme, but lets say a FA can get 8 mil x3 yrs from 76ers or MLE x3 yrs from us or Cavs.
Competitive teams (like us) can still get a decent FA for a decent (not great) amount of money.
I'll bring back Joe J again: After being released by Nets he prob could have gotten more money from another team. Never even considered it.

Players taking less money to sign is a whole different thing though.

Typically the MLE is an avenue to sign a good player but this year it will be useless except for scrubs. Even if a guy is willing to take less, will probably still be more than the MLE since there is so much cap space around the league.

[Mapko]

What? Why? Without 2Pat and Ross this year, our bench isn't dominant, and we don't win nearly as many games. Does Horford cover up enough by himself to make up for the bench being bad? Is Horford comfortable being the third banana behind Lowry and DeMar? What does that do to JV's usage and growth this past season? Is our locker room chemistry nearly as good without 2Pat and Ross?

None of these changes happen in a vacuum. It's hilarious to me how much people underestimate how important Patterson was to us this year.

No argument (our bench was huge).
However, If Scola is gone (I'd say good bet regardless of Horford), in essence 2Pat starts (& thus gone from the bench) resulting in:
Horford starts w Norm off the bench OR
2Pat starts & Ross off the bench.
Look, I like 2Pat as a player, great teammate & locker room guy & wish there was a way we could do this while keeping him. Frankly I doubt it.
WRT Horford being 3rd banana, I'm sure Masai & Casey are more than competent to see if that would be an issue (besides, why not just ask Al)?

[Barolt]

No argument (our bench was huge).
However, If Scola is gone (I'd say good bet regardless of Horford), in essence 2Pat starts (& thus gone from the bench) resulting in:
Horford starts w Norm off the bench OR
2Pat starts & Ross off the bench.
Look, I like 2Pat as a player, great teammate & locker room guy & wish there was a way we could do this while keeping him. Frankly I doubt it.
WRT Horford being 3rd banana, I'm sure Masai & Casey are more than competent to see if that would be an issue (besides, why not just ask Al)?

Either way, I think this is a pipe dream. Realistically, Horford would have to choose the Raptors and be willing to go to no other team for us to be able to force Atlanta's hand. Why would he do that? Lots of other teams that can offer basically the same thing as what we can to Horford, as far as a competitive roster.

[Mapko]

Reminder: David West took that money to go play for the best coach ever, with one of the best 10 players ever, and for an organization with 5 titles in 20 years.

We ain't that.

No argument there. I was sure SA would be there in the end.
We are not Spurs & Casey & not Pop, we are Raps, team that went to game 6 of ECF & probably just as likely to be in division final next year as Spurs.
Personally that MLE we are talking about -D West would be my target for that.

[Mapko]

Either way, I think this is a pipe dream. Realistically, Horford would have to choose the Raptors and be willing to go to no other team for us to be able to force Atlanta's hand. Why would he do that? Lots of other teams that can offer basically the same thing as what we can to Horford, as far as a competitive roster.

Not sure, I'd say "lots".
IMO Boston has best combo of great money & a very competitive team. Maybe Portland?
Then again KD & Horford go to __________(fill in the blanks -LA, 76ers...) they would challenge.
SA, OKC do not need Horford; GS -it would be tricky but doable; Cavs S/T Love for Horford? That's it as far as elite teams go.

Gentlemen, this (S/T for Horford) was just an idea I came up with after reading the thread about Masai & Wasserman group.

PS: Rudy see what you started with that Wasserman/Masai theory (personally I like it)

[ebrian]

What? Why? Without 2Pat and Ross this year, our bench isn't dominant, and we don't win nearly as many games. Does Horford cover up enough by himself to make up for the bench being bad? Is Horford comfortable being the third banana behind Lowry and DeMar? What does that do to JV's usage and growth this past season? Is our locker room chemistry nearly as good without 2Pat and Ross?

None of these changes happen in a vacuum. It's hilarious to me how mouch people underestimate how important Patterson was to us this year.

I don't think anyone is questioning how important Patterson was. We just want someone better

The team has been looking to address a hole at the 4 for quite some time now. Pretty much, since we lost Bosh. We've had Patterson for a couple of years now but it's still being described as a hole that needs to be filled. So again, no one is underestimating Patterson. We just want to get better, and there is an obvious hole to fill.

[The_Warlord]

See the KD argument that people are fond of re: why he would want to play here.. we're in the East and this is his best chance of making the finals.

Also there's Demarre - I have no idea what kind of relationship they have, but you know he's in his ear if Masai asks. That plus the Wasserman connection, the fact that he grew up in Michigan not too far, and how great a City Toronto is with the fan support that ATL simply doesn't have and you start to make a pretty compelling case.

Yes Pat and Ross were keys, but with Horford you stagger him with JV as much as possible and can go small at the 4 when you do that with Carroll or Draft Pick or major longshot here Bruno depending on how his summer goes for a few spot minutes.

[The_Warlord]

BTW great thread, this is why I check into this forum...

[Mess]

Definitely a little tin-foily but having a good relationship would tend to get you more access and more info and that can only help a person feel more confident when making big decisions - and that goes both ways, for the player and the franchise.

But on the other hand, that group represents over 100 players from All NBA studs like AD and Westbrook to former busts like Fab Melo. So the odds are fairly high you're going to get repeated dealings. I wouldn't make any straight line correlations because of it.

Or maybe, just maybe---The Wasserman group returned the favour and leaked that Aldridge was impressed with Toronto's pitch as a thank you to Masai for a strong working relationship.

That's possible. And it would jive that fellow tin-foil brethren Steve Simmons saying that the LMA meeting was just a result of Tim Leiweke calling in a favour.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/04...or-maple-leafs

[Kuh]

Another interesting article on potential bias/links between GMs, which shows that most GMs fall into groups of favorite trading partners. I wonder if these groups line up in any way with the agencies, as discussed here?
http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/06/22/nba-trade-space/