Do we still have trust in Masai?

[DanH]

Man alive I would love it if Motie ended up in the MLE market.

[Mess]

Man alive I would love it if Motie ended up in the MLE market.

Isn't he one of those shooters that can't shoot though? I haven't paid a ton of attention to him but just glancing at his stats now and they are underwhelming. (shouts to Sloan)

[DanH]

Isn't he one of those shooters that can't shoot though? I haven't paid a ton of attention to him but just glancing at his stats now and they are underwhelming. (shouts to Sloan)

He's more of a do-everything sort than a shooter, but he has potential as a shooter (shot 37% from 3 his most recent healthy season - ie the season before last). His performance is nothing special so far, but he has a lot of tools. For the MLE he's a good pickup to platoon with PP.

[Sinbad]

He's more of a do-everything sort than a shooter, but he has potential as a shooter (shot 37% from 3 his most recent healthy season - ie the season before last). His performance is nothing special so far, but he has a lot of tools. For the MLE he's a good pickup to platoon with PP.

So was there ever any truth to Detroit flagging his back as a potential injury hazard, or was that merely smoke and mirrors? I like Motiejunas, but I can understand if Masai wants to steer clear of him for that alone.

[slaw]

Isn't he one of those shooters that can't shoot though? I haven't paid a ton of attention to him but just glancing at his stats now and they are underwhelming. (shouts to Sloan)

Motiejunas strikes me as a guy who is good in theory but it doesn't translate to actual games, for whatever reason.

The other issue I have with a lot of the names being thrown around is this: after JV, my concern (more than shooting or spacing or WS48) is the toughness level up front. Patterson is solid but he isn't a physical presence, which was highlighted in the playoffs, and then we're into Poeltl (rookie), Bebe (meh) and ???????. And, toughness, wearing opponents down, dominating the glass, winning the paint battles night in and night out, was key for the Raps last year.

Everyone gets caught up in the player models and adjusted +/- numbers and "impact vs. production" stats but lacking a physically imposing frontcourt hurts you in actual games when you need to get key defensive rebounds, contest shots, fight through screens, bump cutters, commit hard fouls, set screens, crash the offensive glass, finish through contact, etc. Look no further than GSW signing West and Zaza and the Spurs with Pau.

[DanH]

So was there ever any truth to Detroit flagging his back as a potential injury hazard, or was that merely smoke and mirrors? I like Motiejunas, but I can understand if Masai wants to steer clear of him for that alone.

I know Motiejunas was furious because he felt that DET basically made that up because they got cold feet about the trade. Who knows what the truth is. He does have a history of back injuries, so you wouldn't want to be expecting 36 minutes a night from the guy.

[Mess]

He's more of a do-everything sort than a shooter, but he has potential as a shooter (shot 37% from 3 his most recent healthy season - ie the season before last). His performance is nothing special so far, but he has a lot of tools. For the MLE he's a good pickup to platoon with PP.

That sounds like a guy D'Atoni would love though. But I guess not much Morey has done this offseason makes sense.

[3inthekeon]

van Gundy was going to give up a 1st rounder (only top 8 protected) for DMo, so his basketball skills have value.

[3inthekeon]

Motiejunas strikes me as a guy who is good in theory but it doesn't translate to actual games, for whatever reason.

The other issue I have with a lot of the names being thrown around is this: after JV, my concern (more than shooting or spacing or WS48) is the toughness level up front. Patterson is solid but he isn't a physical presence, which was highlighted in the playoffs, and then we're into Poeltl (rookie), Bebe (meh) and ???????. And, toughness, wearing opponents down, dominating the glass, winning the paint battles night in and night out, was key for the Raps last year.

Everyone gets caught up in the player models and adjusted +/- numbers and "impact vs. production" stats but lacking a physically imposing frontcourt hurts you in actual games when you need to get key defensive rebounds, contest shots, fight through screens, bump cutters, commit hard fouls, set screens, crash the offensive glass, finish through contact, etc. Look no further than GSW signing West and Zaza and the Spurs with Pau.

Hansbro available.

[golden]

Hansbro available.

For backup big depth .... why not?

[Letter N]

For backup big depth .... why not?

Cause he's awful

[magoon]

I think people are obsessing about power forwards too much. We didn't have a true starting power forward last season and we had the best season in the team's history.

We're going to be second in the East again this year. Just go by the Big Three rule - how good are each team's best three players? Do 'em by tiers: 1 is "currently All-NBA or competing for it" level, 2 is "non-fluke All-Star" level, 3 is "just below All-Star/about to make the leap," and 4 is "reliable starter."

Cleveland: LeBron (1), Kyrie (2), Love (2).
Toronto: Kyle (1), DeMar (2), Jonas (3).
Chicago: Butler (1), Wade (2), Rondo (3).
Indiana: PG13 (1), Teague (2/3), Young (4).
Atlanta: Millsap (1/2), Dwight (3), Bazemore (3).
Boston: Horford (2), Thomas (2), Crowder (3/4).
Detroit: Drummond (1), Jackson (3), Harris (4).
New York: Carmelo (2), Rose (2/3), Porzingis (3).
Washington: Wall (2), Beal (3), Mahimi (4).
Brooklyn: Lopez (2), Lin (3/4), Booker (4).
Orlando: Ibaka (2/3), Vucevic (3), Fournier (4).
Miami: Winslow (3), Whiteside (3), Dragic (3). (Bosh is a 1 if he can play, but...)
Milwaukee: Giannis (3), Jabari (3), Middleton (3).
Charlotte: Batum (2/3), Kemba (3/4), MKG (4).
Philly: Simmons (4), Embiid (4), Okafor (4).

Obviously this model doesn't account for overall team depth, or things like "Chicago and Indiana don't have anywhere near enough shooting for the modern NBA," or "Philly and Milwaukee's kids might make major leaps," or Chris Bosh's health. But it's safe to say that Toronto has more talent than any other team in the East other than Cleveland, and with the exception of Boston (who have the most depth) it's not particularly close either.

[golden]

Cause he's awful

Not huge fan, but his 2 seasons in Toronto were far from awful. Quite efficient, actually.

.576 TS% / 123 ORTG / .153 WS48

And he was one of the few Raptors who actually showed up in the playoffs against the Wizards. As a bench big, the main problem would be Casey over-using the 'veteran' and taking minutes away from Poeltl and even JV. And also the return of the 2Pat, Hansbro scramble defense.

[Mess]

Not huge fan, but his 2 seasons in Toronto were far from awful. Quite efficient, actually.

.576 TS% / 123 ORTG / .153 WS48

And he was one of the few Raptors who actually showed up in the playoffs against the Wizards. As a bench big, the main problem would be Casey over-using the 'veteran' and taking minutes away from Poeltl and even JV. And also the return of the 2Pat, Hansbro scramble defense.

lol what?

[golden]

I think people are obsessing about power forwards too much. We didn't have a true starting power forward last season and we had the best season in the team's history.

We're going to be second in the East again this year. Just go by the Big Three rule - how good are each team's best three players? Do 'em by tiers: 1 is "currently All-NBA or competing for it" level, 2 is "non-fluke All-Star" level, 3 is "just below All-Star/about to make the leap," and 4 is "reliable starter."

Cleveland: LeBron (1), Kyrie (2), Love (2).
Toronto: Kyle (1), DeMar (2), Jonas (3).
Chicago: Butler (1), Wade (2), Rondo (3).
Indiana: PG13 (1), Teague (2/3), Young (4).
Atlanta: Millsap (1/2), Dwight (3), Bazemore (3).
Boston: Horford (2), Thomas (2), Crowder (3/4).
Detroit: Drummond (1), Jackson (3), Harris (4).
New York: Carmelo (2), Rose (2/3), Porzingis (3).
Washington: Wall (2), Beal (3), Mahimi (4).
Brooklyn: Lopez (2), Lin (3/4), Booker (4).
Orlando: Ibaka (2/3), Vucevic (3), Fournier (4).
Miami: Winslow (3), Whiteside (3), Dragic (3). (Bosh is a 1 if he can play, but...)
Milwaukee: Giannis (3), Jabari (3), Middleton (3).
Charlotte: Batum (2/3), Kemba (3/4), MKG (4).
Philly: Simmons (4), Embiid (4), Okafor (4).

Obviously this model doesn't account for overall team depth, or things like "Chicago and Indiana don't have anywhere near enough shooting for the modern NBA," or "Philly and Milwaukee's kids might make major leaps," or Chris Bosh's health. But it's safe to say that Toronto has more talent than any other team in the East other than Cleveland, and with the exception of Boston (who have the most depth) it's not particularly close either.

Nice effort, but the obvious flaw is that Lebron is a 1, and everybody else starts at 3.

Top flight 2-way players like PG13 and Butler deserve to be on the next tier by themselves. Kyle is on the tier after that, probably on par with Horford and Wall considering what those guys do on both sides of the floor. Melo & Kyrie could also be in there strictly on offense. Demar is on the tier after Kyle with someone like Isaiah Thomas being in there.

Something like this:

1. Lebron
2.
3. PG13, Butler
4. Kyle, Melo, Kyrie, Horford, Wall
5. DeMar, I. Thomas