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How is this squad a downgrade?

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  • How is this squad a downgrade?

    I see a lot of guys saying that this team won't be able to get the 2nd seed or win as much as last season again this year.

    I know that players like Biyombo and Powell played way better than we expected, but still, we managed to win 56 games of 82 with JV missing 22 and Carroll missing 56... 56!!!

    We are basically the same team this year, just insert Sullinger and Poeltl instead of Scola and Biyombo.

    Another year growing together, our young guys getting better and our top players are in for another season of their prime.

    If they can stay healthy, I don't really see why they would not be able to repeat last year's success, or even build on it.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    100% agreement. Still no chance vs cleveland and golden state, but I expect a strong team
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • #3
      I have a theory on this. It's less about what the Raptors did or didn't do this off-season, and more about the rest of the East. Yes, we can be proud about all that the Raptors accomplished this season. 56 wins and a Conference Finals appearance is a glowing achievement. But there are many things that went "just right" for the Raptors this year:

      -Lowry and DeRozan both enjoyed career years and posted highs across multiple statistical categories in the regular season
      -Masai hit the jackpot with Biyombo, who became an indispensable part of the Raptors' defensive resurgence
      -They went 14-2 against the Atlantic Division which, minus Boston, was pathetic again. It got better this off-season.
      -Carroll's absence hurt Atlanta; they won 12 less games without him
      -Miami lost Bosh to the blood clot issue after the All-Star break, but still managed to cobble together 48 wins
      -Chicago, who routinely thrashed the Raptors, were a dysfunctional wreck and missed the playoffs altogether
      -Washington was besieged by injuries and subsequent chemistry issues all season and missed the playoffs
      -It took them 7 games to slink past an Indiana team that couldn't score and minus Paul George, would be in the lottery
      -It took them 7 games to slink past a Miami team with no Bosh and no Whiteside for the majority of the series

      Kudos to the Raptors for getting the 2nd seed. They had to win those games. But I can't ignore how the road seemed paved for them. I have a hard time believing that everything that broke Toronto's way last season will break that way again.

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      • #4
        So far, Biz and JJ are the only significant losses, and JJ didn't get minutes, and Biz had hands of stone. IN the meantime, presumably the Raps get a healthy Carroll, and year improved and healthy JV, a year improved Powell, Poeltl, Sullinger, Pascal, and no Scola. How is that not a better team? Maybe Ross even finally wakes up! Oh yeah...Lowry in a contract year. Worse? Get out a here!

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        • #5
          no argument, we improve by internal development only....if JV takes his game to the next tier of player, Powell steps up as a key bench player...but we didn't do anything to move the needle to championship contender or serious challenger to the Cavs in the East.

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          • #6
            I think some people are over rating moves made by EC challengers. Simply by randomness, a couple of teams will exceed expectations and a couple will play worse than expected. But definitely the Cavs are the cream of the crop and the Raptors will be very good, barring injury catastrophes. Lowry will be the key. If he's as good as, or close to as good as last year, we'll be top 4 and very likely top 2..

            Edit: And with Lowry turning 30, Casey has to realize it's smarter for him to be a 34-35 mpg player than the 37 mpg player he was last year. That's 100% on the coach.
            Last edited by 3inthekeon; Tue Jul 12th, 2016, 12:14 AM.
            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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            • #7
              Exactly, people aren't factoring in near enough internal development. And Carroll. We're going to be deeper and better than ever before.

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              • #8
                My thoughts are fans overreact like this literally every summer. Always thinking every team improved more.

                That's why they play the games, and I think injuries should be the only thing that might keep us from 50+ wins and another division win. If we're healthy and that doesn't happen, it's a big disappointment regardless of what the competition does.

                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                • #9
                  I don't think this team is a step back. Probably a little better if they are luckier with injuries.

                  But at the same time a lot went right to hit 56 wins and get to the ECF. So even a decrease in wins or a second round loss wouldn't mean the team is worse. If we can manage perennial 50 win seasons and be a threat to get to the conference finals each year, that's very good, and about what this team is looking like until Masai finds a deal for a star PF.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #10
                    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                    I think some people are over rating moves made by EC challengers. Simply by randomness, a couple of teams will exceed expectations and a couple will play worse than expected. But definitely the Cavs are the cream of the crop and the Raptors will be very good, barring injury catastrophes. Lowry will be the key. If he's as good as, or close to as good as last year, we'll be top 4 and very likely top 2..

                    Edit: And with Lowry turning 30, Casey has to realize it's smarter for him to be a 34-35 mpg player than the 37 mpg player he was last year. That's 100% on the coach.
                    This too. If Casey thinks he can keep running Lowry into the ground with huge minutes again, the Raptors will suffer for it-- especially coming off a summer competing in the Olympics. Same thing with DeMar.

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                    • #11
                      I think the loss of biz hurts. I don't want jv to play more than 32mins. I would have preferred dedmon or noel. Need that D in playoffs. I'm ok with yak and bebe for 15mins but not sure for all whole season and playoffs. Sully is ok. Masai just grabbed the fattest plug he could find for cheap. I like the van vleet signing. We might be able to move some pieces at the deadline. Milwaukee falls apart and we get jabari Or the basketball gods finally remember to spark ross' pilot light and he morphs into tmac lite. Wishful thinking.
                      More than anything I'm looking forward to see all the young guys develop.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sinbad wrote: View Post
                        I have a theory on this. It's less about what the Raptors did or didn't do this off-season, and more about the rest of the East. Yes, we can be proud about all that the Raptors accomplished this season. 56 wins and a Conference Finals appearance is a glowing achievement. But there are many things that went "just right" for the Raptors this year:

                        -Lowry and DeRozan both enjoyed career years and posted highs across multiple statistical categories in the regular season
                        lowry and derozan enjoying career years DESPITE the fact that every other team now knows who they are and what they can do is a testament to them as players, not to magical circumstance. they didn't just creep out of nowhere, like powell did.

                        Sinbad wrote: View Post
                        -Masai hit the jackpot with Biyombo, who became an indispensable part of the Raptors' defensive resurgence
                        how exactly was biyombo indispensable? the month that JV didnt play due to injury (majority of december), the teams defensive rating was actually slightly worse than the month before.

                        Sinbad wrote: View Post
                        -They went 14-2 against the Atlantic Division which, minus Boston, was pathetic again. It got better this off-season.
                        raptors were 32-9 at home. 24-17 on the road. 39-13 vs eastern conference and 17-13 vs the west. even non-playoff team orlando went 12-6 vs atlantic. who cares.

                        Sinbad wrote: View Post
                        -Carroll's absence hurt Atlanta; they won 12 less games without him

                        -Miami lost Bosh to the blood clot issue after the All-Star break, but still managed to cobble together 48 wins
                        -Chicago, who routinely thrashed the Raptors, were a dysfunctional wreck and missed the playoffs altogether
                        -Washington was besieged by injuries and subsequent chemistry issues all season and missed the playoffs

                        -It took them 7 games to slink past an Indiana team that couldn't score and minus Paul George, would be in the lottery
                        -It took them 7 games to slink past a Miami team with no Bosh and no Whiteside for the majority of the series

                        Kudos to the Raptors for getting the 2nd seed. They had to win those games. But I can't ignore how the road seemed paved for them. I have a hard time believing that everything that broke Toronto's way last season will break that way again.
                        bullshit. injuries aren't magical things that only happen once in a blue moon. every team has to go on with injured players, including the raptors who had injuries to two starters that missed some significant time. unfortunately its just part of the game. does that mean every other team that beat the raptors has an asterisk next to that win because our highest paid player was out?
                        Last edited by iblastoff; Tue Jul 12th, 2016, 02:20 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Raptors will be fine. Remember CoJo is 24, he is still improving, Powell is improving, Jonas is improving, Ross (we hope) is improving, Derozan is 26 and is entering the peak of his prime, Carroll will finally be healthy (hopefully), Sullinger is 24 and will continue improving and an upgrade over Scola, either one or both of Siakam and Poeltl may exceed expectations, I think Siakam will.

                          The season hasn't even started, there is still a lot of time to make moves.

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                          • #14
                            Sinbad wrote: View Post
                            It took them 7 games to slink past a Miami team with no Bosh and no Whiteside for the majority of the series
                            Raptors lost JV due to injuries in the Heat series and Carroll definitely was not 100% in the Playoffs. JV even missed and wasn't the same in the Cavs series and Raptors still won 2 games.

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                            • #15
                              iblastoff wrote: View Post
                              bullshit. injuries aren't magical things that only happen once in a blue moon. every team has to go on with injured players, including the raptors who had injuries to two starters that missed some significant time. unfortunately its just part of the game. does that mean every other team that beat the raptors has an asterisk next to that win because our highest paid player was out?
                              Now you're being facetious. Of course there are no asterisks next to wins. You're well within your rights to #WellActually everything I pointed out, but it's still a lot that has to break in the Raptors favour. That's all I'm saying.

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