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  • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post


    What is more Interesting especially if his numbers continues to dive…are they going to invest close to max (34 million) like most here have suggested on a 28 year old who is basically an average three point shooter and a decent help defender who was once an All Star or they trade him to a younger player with All Star potential who is cheap.

    I am more inclined on the principle of Scottie having the utmost freedom and a defined role than anything else.
    The cap is expected to go up to $134M. Fred's max is 30% of that.

    Breaking it down per year:

    $40,200,000
    $43,416,000
    $46,632,000
    $49,848,000
    $53,064,000

    A 4 year deal would be $180,096,000 or an AAV of $45,024,000
    A 5 year deal would be $233,160,000 or an AAV of $46,632,000

    $34M is not close to the max. Especially if you meant AAV and not the first year of his extension.

    Comment


    • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
      2022-23 season: 17 Starts, 9 Wins, 8 Losses, 1 Double-Double

      More games to recover but…..

      TS% .511 (bad)

      Per 100 Possessions

      Code:
      Season Age PER TS% 3PAr FTr TRB% AST% STL% USG% WS WS/48 BPM VORP
      2016-17 22 10.5 .443 .261 .198 8.1 17.5 2.8 20.6 0.2 .040 -2.1 0.0
      2017-18 23 15.9 .556 .479 .185 6.8 22.8 2.2 19.1 4.7 .149 2.4 1.7
      2018-19 24 13.7 .539 .493 .192 5.1 23.9 1.6 17.9 4.3 .117 0.5 1.1
      2019-20 25 16.3 .553 .484 .256 5.6 27.7 2.5 21.7 5.8 .145 2.7 2.3
      2020-21 26 16.8 .534 .547 .220 6.4 26.7 2.2 23.9 4.3 .108 2.5 2.2
      2021-22 27 17.3 .552 .585 .202 6.4 26.7 2.3 23.7 6.7 .131 3.6 3.5
      2022-23 28 14.6 .511 .560 .250 5.2 25.9 2.4 21.2 1.3 .100 1.0 0.5
      Career 15.9 .542 .522 .215 6.0 25.5 2.2 21.5 27.3 .125 2.2 11.3
      Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
      Generated 12/4/2022.


      …..based on the table below, 56% of his shots were from the 3 point distance (3P) and his average is not the great either (34%)

      …..his in between game is non existent. Mainly relies on his Hail Marys, that is his bread and butter.

      Shooting

      Code:
      % of % of % of % of % of % of FG% FG% FG% FG% FG% FG%
      Season Age FG% 2P 0-3 3-10 10-16 16-3P 3P 2P 0-3 3-10 10-16 16-3P 3P
      2016-17 22 .351 .739 .378 .180 .063 .108 .261 .341 .429 .100 .429 .417 .379
      2017-18 23 .426 .521 .327 .132 .037 .026 .479 .437 .567 .236 .050 .357 .414
      2018-19 24 .410 .507 .255 .080 .050 .122 .493 .441 .516 .333 .300 .411 .378
      2019-20 25 .413 .516 .307 .113 .038 .060 .484 .434 .549 .230 .276 .326 .390
      2020-21 26 .389 .453 .174 .115 .069 .095 .547 .416 .530 .260 .433 .386 .366
      2021-22 27 .403 .415 .086 .122 .091 .116 .585 .440 .649 .313 .410 .441 .377
      2022-23 28 .365 .440 .143 .119 .075 .075 .560 .387 .472 .333 .316 .368 .348
      Career .402 .478 .210 .116 .062 .088 .522 .427 .545 .271 .355 .401 .379
      Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
      Generated 12/4/2022.
      The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post


      What is more Interesting especially if his numbers continues to dive…are they going to invest close to max (34 million) like most here have suggested on a 28 year old who is basically an average three point shooter and a decent help defender who was once an All Star or they trade him to a younger player with All Star potential who is cheap.

      I am more inclined on the principle of Scottie having the utmost freedom and a defined role than anything else.

      planetmars wrote: View Post

      The cap is expected to go up to $134M. Fred's max is 30% of that.

      Breaking it down per year:

      $40,200,000
      $43,416,000
      $46,632,000
      $49,848,000
      $53,064,000

      A 4 year deal would be $180,096,000 or an AAV of $45,024,000
      A 5 year deal would be $233,160,000 or an AAV of $46,632,000


      $34M is not close to the max. Especially if you meant AAV and not the first year of his extension.

      below would sum it all up if Masai and Webster would even consider betting with this kind of money….


      #TradeVanVleet

      Comment


      • Trade him ASAP

        Comment


        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
          25-27 would be where his number would likely end up being based on the decline and injury stuff.

          I dont think there are many people that are available who are all stars but you might be able to get picks and solid role players. Dallas, NOP, and a few other squads would make sense to extract picks from. Alternatively, chicago. Chicago would be the team I would target. I would either look at Lavine assuming his knee can and will hold up. I would also look at the different pieces chicago has.


          I will say this. You asked for maxey in an FVV trade a year ago and ppl poo pooed you I may have been one of them but that would have been the correct decision.
          Jalen Brunson makes $26M/year and he's younger than Fred, so that would be a fair deal, IMO. It was the late season overpays of Herro and Poole that really messed up Fred's market. But, if he keeps on this downward track of injury and poor play, I wonder if he'll regret signing the extension. As far as performance. We could be witnessing a Thibs-Rose situation happening with Nurse & Fred. We know he's not a quick guard, but he's looked even slower than normal this year. Can't get by anybody off the dribble.

          And why would Fred for Maxey be considered a bad deal back then, if it would be considered a steal of a deal today? Not really following that logic. That's the point of hindsight. Even better would have been Fred for Tyrese Haliburton in a 3-way deal, if that was possible.

          Comment


          • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

            below would sum it all up if Masai and Webster would even consider betting with this kind of money….

            Don't quite understand the meme. Most here I believe thinks Fred could get around $34M and that's because Poole set the market (he's making $32M but with bonuses).

            Yet $34M is not close to the max as I broke down what a max contract really looks like. I'm thinking Fred gets around 22-25% of the cap. Not 30%.


            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post

              The cap is expected to go up to $134M. Fred's max is 30% of that.

              Breaking it down per year:

              $40,200,000
              $43,416,000
              $46,632,000
              $49,848,000
              $53,064,000

              A 4 year deal would be $180,096,000 or an AAV of $45,024,000
              A 5 year deal would be $233,160,000 or an AAV of $46,632,000

              $34M is not close to the max. Especially if you meant AAV and not the first year of his extension.
              This..
              Lol..if this happens I want Masai fired..
              I wouldn't give him 4 million per year..this would be beyond dumb..just move on from him. Time 2 move on from this abotross.
              Look what is going on in Maimi with Kyle Lowry, they want him out and no one wants that contract...and it's 30 million.
              45 million Avg for Hogg boy..SMFH!!!
              "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
              My kitchen is always open to friends"

              Comment


              • Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post

                This..
                Lol..if this happens I want Masai fired..
                I wouldn't give him 4 million per year..this would be beyond dumb..just move on from him. Time 2 move on from this abotross.
                Look what is going on in Maimi with Kyle Lowry, they want him out and no one wants that contract...and it's 30 million.
                45 million Avg for Hogg boy..SMFH!!!
                Fred's not getting his max. But people need to get used to these new numbers. $30M is not the same as it used to be.

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  Fred's not getting his max. But people need to get used to these new numbers. $30M is not the same as it used to be.
                  It's a tough line to cross cause it is so much money. There are good companies that don't generate $30 million/year. It's a staggering number even in context.

                  I saw something about ESPN the other day that it is spending $45 billion on rights fees through 2027 and that's before any new NBA or CFB deals, which it will need to renew between now and then. At some point you to wonder how these broadcasters are making $ on any of this (may already be the case for some).

                  Comment


                  • slaw wrote: View Post

                    It's a tough line to cross cause it is so much money. There are good companies that don't generate $30 million/year. It's a staggering number even in context.

                    I saw something about ESPN the other day that it is spending $45 billion on rights fees through 2027 and that's before any new NBA or CFB deals, which it will need to renew between now and then. At some point you to wonder how these broadcasters are making $ on any of this (may already be the case for some).
                    espn + is losing money too

                    Comment


                    • planetmars wrote: View Post

                      Don't quite understand the meme. Most here I believe thinks Fred could get around $34M and that's because Poole set the market (he's making $32M but with bonuses).

                      Yet $34M is not close to the max as I broke down what a max contract really looks like. I'm thinking Fred gets around 22-25% of the cap. Not 30%.

                      What is there not to understand…is it not mind blowing and stupid if they give him 30% of the cap?

                      but granting he gets 25% as you indicated….. $34 million the first year of extension is still ridiculous. I Don’t care what Poole or Herro had gotten.

                      As I said before the season started, they should have signed him already at 25-27M per which a prudent person would consider as a reasonable price. Anything above that is irresponsible.

                      Fast forward to now and seeing his numbers on a decline and his body is breaking down with boatload of minutes (ergo….even on a 2nd game of a b2b playing a bottomdwelling opponent and his team was already leading in double figures, no thanks to his surrogate dad)…25-27 million to me is already an overpay.

                      But hopefully Masai and Bobby are more responsible.
                      #TradeVanVleet

                      Comment


                      • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

                        What is there not to understand…is it not mind blowing and stupid if they give him 30% of the cap?

                        but granting he gets 25% as you indicated….. $34 million the first year of extension is still ridiculous. I Don’t care what Poole or Herro had gotten.

                        As I said before the season started, they should have signed him already at 25-27M per which a prudent person would consider as a reasonable price. Anything above that is irresponsible.

                        Fast forward to now and seeing his numbers on a decline and his body is breaking down with boatload of minutes (ergo….even on a 2nd game of a b2b playing a bottomdwelling opponent and his team was already leading in double figures, no thanks to his surrogate dad)…25-27 million to me is already an overpay.

                        But hopefully Masai and Bobby are more responsible.
                        You don't care, but that's the market. He is likely going to get something close to that. But again people are not used to the new numbers yet.

                        And the Raptors can't force someone to sign a contract. He's not an idiot. He could have extended but didn't. He thinks he can get as much as Poole and likely can.

                        $34M a year is a bit more than 25% of the cap if the cap starts at $134M. And I think that's the high end. Masai will likely add bonuses to his contract.. and will only get at the high end if he makes another all-star team or all-defense or something.

                        That's why I said about 22-25% of the cap. 25% being on the high end which is the $34M you keep mentioning.






                        Comment


                        • Lowry is on the block. Fred, birch, flynn for lowry and a first?

                          Comment


                          • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                            Lowry is on the block. Fred, birch, flynn for lowry and a first?
                            Sounds fair

                            Comment


                            • No to recycling Lowry too....you can't go home.
                              Would ruin his legacy here, we dodged that bullet.

                              Comment


                              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                                You don't care, but that's the market. He is likely going to get something close to that. But again people are not used to the new numbers yet.

                                And the Raptors can't force someone to sign a contract. He's not an idiot. He could have extended but didn't. He thinks he can get as much as Poole and likely can.

                                $34M a year is a bit more than 25% of the cap if the cap starts at $134M. And I think that's the high end. Masai will likely add bonuses to his contract.. and will only get at the high end if he makes another all-star team or all-defense or something.

                                That's why I said about 22-25% of the cap. 25% being on the high end which is the $34M you keep mentioning.
                                I responded to your question of you not understanding the gif that it would be mind blowing and stupid if Masai/ Bobby would offer him that amount of money. Not talking about what he will get from other teams but rather talking about the Raptors being prudent and responsible. He bet on himself once again in not signing in the offseason. Definitely it is common sense that the Raptors cannot force him to sign on a contract if he thinks he is undervalued.

                                Take it or leave it ($25-27 mil/ per)

                                or find another alternative which is to trade him and maximize the return
                                #TradeVanVleet

                                Comment

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