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  • That play they keep showing on the highlights where FVV picked Paul up at full court and flustered him into a turnover says all you need to know about Fred. As Doris Burke (one of the best broadcasters in the business) said recently, Fred is one of the stories of the year in the NBA.

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    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
      I think fred has very much passed both delon and norm in terms of long term importance, if there were "budgetary concerns" this summer.
      Agreed but I really wish we didnt sign Powell now.. that guy is gonna handcuff us in the future with his $10 mil per year... they will have to be strategic because they will have to get rid of someone to re-sign Vanvleet who I know someone is going to throw $10 mil+ at this year...to me at how he's playing he's worth $10-$12 mil or so in the open market right now, even more... so it's going to be a challenge to re-sign him... his value will only go through the roof if he really shows something in the playoff, at which time his value may go up even more...

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      • Mitch P wrote: View Post
        I agree that they should keep both, especially with Lowry obviously beginning to deteriorate. Eventually they'll want to find another star point guard but these two can provide stability for years. I still think Delon has a lot of improvement ahead of him. He has a lot of talent but FVV just has amazing maturity and poise for such a young player. They play well together too. Considering how bleak our draft pick situation is at present it's a lucky thing that these two have worked out so well.
        Again we have some handcuffs right now. Lowry is maybe a tad overpaid right now and I think he could have bene had at even $24 mil or so but Masai gave him $30 mil out of loyalty.

        Powell is another guy who is gonna handcuff us - he has really dropped this year. $10 mil for how he's playing is gonan kill this team in the future to get that one impact guy -- I really hope they can package him off but I dont know how unless you throw in a 1st but with Raps draft pick likely in the high 20's this year, it may not be as attractive.

        Masai has his hands full -- but his fault for re-signing Powell so early...

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        • sanyo wrote: View Post
          Agreed but I really wish we didnt sign Powell now.. that guy is gonna handcuff us in the future with his $10 mil per year... they will have to be strategic because they will have to get rid of someone to re-sign Vanvleet who I know someone is going to throw $10 mil+ at this year...to me at how he's playing he's worth $10-$12 mil or so in the open market right now, even more... so it's going to be a challenge to re-sign him... his value will only go through the roof if he really shows something in the playoff, at which time his value may go up even more...
          DanH said in another thread today that if Fred got an offer sheet it'd likely stand to be in the area of
          $8-9million. Not sure if he feels that'd be the higher end due to restrictions of what an offer sheet allows for -- or projections of a perceived market. While $8-9mil could still have considerable, perhaps insurmountable tax implications apparently,(somewhere in the area of $25million total, salary+tax), Fred's annual figure could stand to be at least a little less than what you posed.

          Would be good to know more about the factors behind this.
          I'll hope for our sake that, at worst, Dan's expertise holds true here

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          • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
            DanH said in another thread today that if Fred got an offer sheet it'd likely stand to be in the area of
            $8-9million. Not sure if he feels that'd be the higher end due to restrictions of what an offer sheet allows for -- or projections of a perceived market. While $8-9mil could still have considerable, perhaps insurmountable tax implications apparently,(somewhere in the area of $25million total, salary+tax), Fred's annual figure could stand to be at least a little less than what you posed.

            Would be good to know more about the factors behind this.
            I'll hope for our sake that, at worst, Dan's expertise holds true here
            It's not that it would likely be 8-9M (I actually think there's a good chance the market realizes he's like 5 foot nothing and gets shy and the best offer he sees is a tax-MLE, around 5-6M), it's that literally any offer, even if it's for his maximum salary, would have the first two years at 8-9M (the two years where the Raps are deep in the tax) due to his Gilbert Arenas free agent status, with higher salaries in the third and fourth years of the deal.

            Leaving that reality aside, I also can't see a cap space team (of which there are very few this summer) using that cap space on Fred VanVleet. More likely his ceiling is a full MLE, and as I noted before he could get offers as low as the tax-MLE.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • sanyo wrote: View Post
              Again we have some handcuffs right now. Lowry is maybe a tad overpaid right now and I think he could have bene had at even $24 mil or so but Masai gave him $30 mil out of loyalty.

              Powell is another guy who is gonna handcuff us - he has really dropped this year. $10 mil for how he's playing is gonan kill this team in the future to get that one impact guy -- I really hope they can package him off but I dont know how unless you throw in a 1st but with Raps draft pick likely in the high 20's this year, it may not be as attractive.

              Masai has his hands full -- but his fault for re-signing Powell so early...

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              • Yeah, for example, that game where Popovitch said to Casey, "See you in the Finals", I'm pretty sure Norm had a ridiculously goof game, in the bench mob spirit. Or Indiana, I'm sure they don't forget what he did to Paul George and them in that series to turn the tide. Milwaukee in the playoffs. I actually believe that while his numbers are down, and he's been mightily struggling most of the season, there'll be a good number of teams who he's made enough of a great impression on along the way. And the fact that he's coming from our program which is making everybody look amazing and yet where it's also understandable that someone could get lost in the mix.

                Worst case scenario Masai just has to show that Go Daddy commercial and then any team becomes a buyer. That shit has superstar written all over it.

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                • I don't blame Masai at all for signing Norm as he did, as he was pretty much our best player in our only winning playoff series in 2017, against the Bucks, and was also good in the 2016 playoffs. It seems like nobody could have predicted his precipitous decline (though he is playing a bit better again the last couple of games!). I kind of feel like his value has bottomed out due to his play this season, but who knows for sure. Hopefully he keeps picking it up and once again becomes a valuable player/piece.

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                  • If VanVleet leaves, I could see Masai bringing in a guy like Tyler Ennis, who he wanted to draft initially. Finding a backup point guard is the easiest position to fill in the NBA. Fred has been great, but he's not irreplaceable, by any stretch of the imagination. Not to mention, we have Delon already, so you'd have the option of finding another ball handler who mainly just needs to shoot and defend.

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                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      If VanVleet leaves, I could see Masai bringing in a guy like Tyler Ennis, who he wanted to draft initially. Finding a backup point guard is the easiest position to fill in the NBA. Fred has been great, but he's not irreplaceable, by any stretch of the imagination. Not to mention, we have Delon already, so you'd have the option of finding another ball handler who mainly just needs to shoot and defend.
                      I don't think people realizes how crucial VV is to this team's success. He's easily replaceable? i can't believe that all this time people are still underrating this guy lol. He's a MASSIVE upgrade over Joseph. He's way better PG than Wright. And come on Tyler Ennis?

                      VV plays a mature game. Controls the game like a veteran PG. He's a good defender. He's a big time clutch performer. You know you're a hell of a player when Chris Paul praises you.
                      Mamba Mentality

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                      • TRex wrote: View Post
                        I don't think people realizes how crucial VV is to this team's success. He's easily replaceable? i can't believe that all this time people are still underrating this guy lol. He's a MASSIVE upgrade over Joseph. He's way better PG than Wright. And come on Tyler Ennis?

                        VV plays a mature game. Controls the game like a veteran PG. He's a good defender. He's a big time clutch performer. You know you're a hell of a player when Chris Paul praises you.
                        I also want to add, VV is what makes that 2nd unit go.

                        Masai and co. needs to do everything they can to re-sign this guy.
                        Mamba Mentality

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                        • golden wrote: View Post
                          If VanVleet leaves, I could see Masai bringing in a guy like Tyler Ennis, who he wanted to draft initially. Finding a backup point guard is the easiest position to fill in the NBA. Fred has been great, but he's not irreplaceable, by any stretch of the imagination. Not to mention, we have Delon already, so you'd have the option of finding another ball handler who mainly just needs to shoot and defend.
                          Tyler Ennis is the Lakers 3rd PG. Are you saying that the 3rd PG of a lottery team can come here and do what VanVleet is doing for this team?

                          I'm with TRex on this one and i'm going to go a step further. I think VanVleet has star potential.

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                          • Sonny wrote: View Post
                            Tyler Ennis is the Lakers 3rd PG. Are you saying that the 3rd PG of a lottery team can come here and do what VanVleet is doing for this team?

                            I'm with TRex on this one and i'm going to go a step further. I think VanVleet has star potential.
                            Ennis is not even good enough to be the Lakers(a lottery team) backup PG lmao. He's shit.
                            Mamba Mentality

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                            • Sonny wrote: View Post
                              Tyler Ennis is the Lakers 3rd PG. Are you saying that the 3rd PG of a lottery team can come here and do what VanVleet is doing for this team?

                              I'm with TRex on this one and i'm going to go a step further. I think VanVleet has star potential.
                              It doesn't have to be Tyler Ennis specifically, but yeah, I think you can find a PG out of free agency, D-League, Europe, etc... to replace Fred. This is sounding like Biz all over again, who actually was our most important defensive player during our ECF run.

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                              • golden wrote: View Post
                                It doesn't have to be Tyler Ennis specifically, but yeah, I think you can find a PG out of free agency, D-League, Europe, etc... to replace Fred. This is sounding like Biz all over again, who actually was our most important defensive player during our ECF run.
                                So basically any PG.

                                You think Joseph or Wright can do what VanVleet is doing for this team right now?

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