Everything VanVleet

[golden]

He said he was never made a formal offer. Key word bolded.

lol. I'm agreeing with that. Lewenberg's wording in his article was that Fred "turned down" the offer. He didn't qualify it with "verbal" vs. "formal". That's just bad journalism, if that's the case. Grange had to clarify it later for JLew, with the "mutual" statement, obviously getting that from Fred.

Prior to the start of the season, VanVleet turned down a contract extension valued at roughly $114 million, the maximum Toronto could offer at the time, according to a source

https://www.tsn.ca/nba/raptors-faili...ound-1.1902908

Bit of a nothing burger, anyway. Fred wants Herro money... we've known that all along.

[golden]

You know there's still half a season to go right? If his bad play was due to playing while injured then he might finally be feeling better. He's certainly been playing better the last few games now. Similar to Gary having returned to form after he got over his injury/sickness from start of the season.

Fred blaming injuries for his poor shooting was not a smart thing to do, at his age. Herro, Poole and Barrett got $30M because they are young and teams are betting that they have more upside. Fred is openly hinting that he might be on the decline because his body is breaking down.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Lewenberg and Grange were fed sh*t. Lol.

No offer was made by MLSE.

Lol....Hold on second.
Hahaha...Mehwahaaa. what a Liar.
I watched this more than few times, watch his gesture, expression, hands, face..about the 114 million, it wasn't me..this guy is just amazing, cough...
Stop it...do u ppl understand, u still don't get it. This guy loves 2 spin stuff out.
Come on player..baby it wasn't me that I cheated, I tripped and landed on your face.
Bye Bye..114 million, keep dreaming buddy, Masai ain't giving u d&%%, maybe if your nice, he'll send u packing 2 where u can spin that s%#$ in different city.
Omg...Lol..everyday we gotta listen this trash from this clown..go away.

[Dvdvideo]

Well if that's a truthfull statement, it skews things for sure. But if you come to a mutual agreement not to be offered a contract, isn't that the same as turning it down.

Raptors management: Freddy, we can only offer u a max 114 million right now, should we sit down and discuss?

Freddy: No, theres no rush.

To me that's basically the same as turning it down if u already know what is being offered. Semantics.

if if they just offered to sit down and discuss with no figure, and he said no, still semantics.

I dont see a scenario that's "mutually decided" where this isn't basically a denial of the offer unless the raptors management is basically saying they don't even want to talk to him,which makes very little sense as of last summer.

[golden]

It’s really very simple. Fred wants Herro money. Raptors can’t provide that right now, so they offered the most money they could. But Fred wants to see if he can get more.

The only thing worth us discussing here and for management to decide, is if he’s worth Herro money.

[LJ2]

Fred blaming injuries for his poor shooting was not a smart thing to do, at his age. Herro, Poole and Barrett got $30M because they are young and teams are betting that they have more upside. Fred is openly hinting that he might be on the decline because his body is breaking down.

Blaming injuries for his poor shooting? Did he actually say that was the case? Either way I don't see an issue with it or him hoping to land a bigger contract. Like you said below, it's up to management to decide if he is worth it or not .

[Primer]

It’s really very simple. Fred wants Herro money. Raptors can’t provide that right now, so they offered the most money they could. But Fred wants to see if he can get more.

The only thing worth us discussing here and for management to decide, is if he’s worth Herro money.

So you admit they offered him the $114M!

[Hotshot]

It’s really very simple. Fred wants Herro money. Raptors can’t provide that right now, so they offered the most money they could. But Fred wants to see if he can get more.

The only thing worth us discussing here and for management to decide, is if he’s worth Herro money.

I'd rather give Herro money to GTJ. Yeah I know that is expensive but will be only 25 next season, can shoot the 3 well, play respectable D and avg close to 20 a game. Even when he was send to the bench, never complained.

You ain't going to find a whole lot of shooters on this level on a bargain these days. If you are a good shooter and avg close to 20 per game, you are getting paid.

[planetmars]

You know there's still half a season to go right? If his bad play was due to playing while injured then he might finally be feeling better. He's certainly been playing better the last few games now. Similar to Gary having returned to form after he got over his injury/sickness from start of the season.

Before yesterday he shot 3/9, 4/14, 3/12 and then two days off due to injury. He was also 2/6 against the Clippers before that.

His 3pt shot isn't really coming around, unless if yesterday is a spark of something new. I'd like for him to just get efficient. He was really good last season before his injury.. and every year before that one (except at the start of the 2019 playoffs pre-baby).

His 3pt shot is what makes him a dangerous player.. more than anything else. To be able to take quick shots from deep but make them more often than not is a big reason why the Raptors were good. And why they aren't this year.

He has 42 games left. So still lots of time.. but our front office could run out of patience as the trade deadline is about a month away.

[golden]

So you admit they offered him the $114M!

Lol. Do I really own that much real estate in your head that you have to catch me saying something wrong, when there’s nothing there? I was just pointing out that Lewenberg’s article was mis-leading, poorly written, incorrect… or all of the above. Grange clarified it and then Fred had to step up to the mic and set the record straight again. That’s it.

The reality is that nobody knows if they actually offered Fred the max extension (verbally or not) or if Fred’s agent said there’s no point even doing, that after Herro & Poole re-set the market.

That said, Fred is not in the same age bracket as Herro & Poole, who were paid for upside. Fred may have hit his ceiling already and could be declining. His defense is what set him apart from those guys, and that’s been shaky this year. The growing injury history is also a big concern. What is his actual market, ie, what teams will actually need a 6th man / combo guard in the off-season at Herro/Poole money?

[DanH]

Lol. Do I really own that much real estate in your head that you have to catch me saying something wrong, when there’s nothing there? I was just pointing out that Lewenberg’s article was mis-leading, poorly written, incorrect… or all of the above. Grange clarified it and then Fred had to step up to the mic and set the record straight again. That’s it.

The reality is that nobody knows if they actually offered Fred the max extension (verbally or not) or if Fred’s agent said there’s no point even doing, that after Herro & Poole re-set the market.

That said, Fred is not in the same age bracket as Herro & Poole, who were paid for upside. Fred may have hit his ceiling already and could be declining. His defense is what set him apart from those guys, and that’s been shaky this year. The growing injury history is also a big concern. What is his actual market, ie, what teams will actually need a 6th man / combo guard in the off-season at Herro/Poole money?

This is all very silly. Both sides knew the 114M deal was there to be signed if Fred wanted it, and both sides knew that Fred ultimately decided that he wanted to wait it out potentially through to free agency. The semantics about "offers" is pretty silly.

[G__Deane]

But one thing is clear: VanVleet believes he's worth more than what Toronto can currently give him.

"Without going too far into it ... [I'm] just trying to put myself in a good position business-wise, and not take an extension on a deal that was made three or four years ago," VanVleet told ESPN.

"I felt like I've outplayed that contract thus far. So just trying to get myself in a position to put the cards in their hands. They got to make a decision from an organization standpoint.

"I love being here. I love being a Raptor. I got a great relationship with Masai and Bobby, so I'm confident that we could find [a deal]. It's a great partnership that we have, so going forward, I'm not going to make it easy on them and they're not going to make it on me either, and that's the way it's going."

I'm 100% ready to trade FVV for younger players with upside and/or picks.
I'm also 99% sure Masai/Bobby won't move him (they'll try and move Trent) and it's the wrong move imo.

I like Fred and the whole undrafted bet-on-yourself story. But he's a limiting factor on this team now and needs to be moved as the team pivots. Not going to happen as I think Masai is stuck in the feel good undrafted story too ....

[golden]

This is all very silly. Both sides knew the 114M deal was there to be signed if Fred wanted it, and both sides knew that Fred ultimately decided that he wanted to wait it out potentially through to free agency. The semantics about "offers" is pretty silly.

Not really disagreeing with any of the above. I was just pointing out that the Lewenberg article, wording and timing itself was mis-leading, incorrect or “silly”, because it implied new information was out there, which got aggregated to the point where Fred had to address it.

[Yuri Gagarin]

The most difficult part of trading a player is imagining them tearing it up wherever they go. This doesn’t concern me at all with Fred. Im more worried about Banton doing that down the road than Fred. Trent too but I just have a feeling lakers will give him a good offer and hes gone

[G__Deane]

The most difficult part of trading a player is imagining them tearing it up wherever they go. This doesn’t concern me at all with Fred. Im more worried about Banton doing that down the road than Fred. Trent too but I just have a feeling lakers will give him a good offer and hes gone

Trent is exactly the kind of player that would torch you on his return to Toronto.
Fred would just tear up after the video tribute and say his different role at the new team was limiting him....