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  • It's going to come down to VanVleet or Wright. VanVleet is probably at or near his ceiling. Wright may never reach his ceiling. What will Masai do?

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    • I don't have anything else to say. I'm just dumbfounded that all this time, people are still underestimating this guy. VV is what makes the 2nd unit go. The leader of that group. The greatest bench in Raptors history. Take him out and this bench would struggle. We saw it when he was out a month ago.
      Mamba Mentality

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      • I don't think you can just replace FVV with a replacement level PG. There is something to be said about chemistry. He's also pretty intelligent from what I can see. I mean we had CoJo last couple of years, and FVV has made a far bigger impact in this one year than CoJo ever had.

        I'd trade CJ for cap relief to keep FVV if we had to and I love CJ.

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        • Sonny wrote: View Post
          So basically any PG.

          You think Joseph or Wright can do what VanVleet is doing for this team right now?
          Not any PG, but I trust Masai to be able to find the low-cost talent to replace FVV if he leaves - that's what Masai does. And I trust the team to develop the player and the new system to be able to maximize their strengths. He couldn't finish at the rim and couldn't hit 3's, but the team gave him time to find his game and develop chemistry.

          Are people forgetting where FVV himself came from? I love Freddy, but backup PG is most available position on the FA or trade market.

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          • LJ2 wrote: View Post
            It's going to come down to VanVleet or Wright. VanVleet is probably at or near his ceiling. Wright may never reach his ceiling. What will Masai do?
            It's not coming down to Wright and VanVleet. It's Powell or VanVleet. We're paying too much money for 11th man
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
              It's not coming down to Wright and VanVleet. It's Powell or VanVleet. We're paying too much money for 11th man
              Yeah, but that 11th man already has a new contract that looks like it won't be movable this summer, and can guard 3 positions.

              It's going to come down to who our long term back-up PG is going to be.

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              • veda-parabolist wrote: View Post
                I don't blame Masai at all for signing Norm as he did, as he was pretty much our best player in our only winning playoff series in 2017, against the Bucks, and was also good in the 2016 playoffs. It seems like nobody could have predicted his precipitous decline (though he is playing a bit better again the last couple of games!). I kind of feel like his value has bottomed out due to his play this season, but who knows for sure. Hopefully he keeps picking it up and once again becomes a valuable player/piece.
                Norm's performance has tapered off strictly for psychological reasons. He still shows the same athletic ability. The real Norm is in there. I am confident he will crawl back out. It doesn't matter if he has been given chances. It's a mental thing. He has to be ready to take advantage of the opportunities. It seems to be happening.

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                • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                  Yeah, but that 11th man already has a new contract that looks like it won't be movable this summer, and can guard 3 positions.

                  It's going to come down to who our long term back-up PG is going to be.
                  yeah and Wright is on rookie scale deal and he's great fit on a bench too. His size allows him to play SG anyway so there's no need to fill in traditional positions. Powell is the odd man out.
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                  • If Masai had to give up the 28th pick in the draft next year to get rid of Powell would you guys do it? I don't think a team will take on Powell's contract without asking for that pick as well.

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                    • TRex wrote: View Post
                      I don't think people realizes how crucial VV is to this team's success. He's easily replaceable? i can't believe that all this time people are still underrating this guy lol. He's a MASSIVE upgrade over Joseph. He's way better PG than Wright. And come on Tyler Ennis?

                      VV plays a mature game. Controls the game like a veteran PG. He's a good defender. He's a big time clutch performer. You know you're a hell of a player when Chris Paul praises you.
                      I agree. He's not as easily replaceable in my opinion. Yea there are plenty of back up point guards out there but I don't think any of them are as good and as poised as Fred to be honest.
                      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                      • planetmars wrote: View Post
                        If Masai had to give up the 28th pick in the draft next year to get rid of Powell would you guys do it? I don't think a team will take on Powell's contract without asking for that pick as well.
                        We won't have to give up a pick to trade Powell. People might be thinking about what we needed to dump Carroll, but the main reason we did that was because of his injuries and age. Team's will take a chance on Powell at 10M. He was a hot commodity at the trade deadline last year (Orlando wanted him in the Ibaka deal) and he's had only one down season. He's still a physical specimen and he can defend. He needs a summer to really work on his handles and his 3-pt shot and I think he'll be fine. Especially his handles and maybe add another finishing move (e.g. EuroStep)
                        Last edited by golden; Mon Mar 12th, 2018, 12:56 PM.

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                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                          Yeah, but that 11th man already has a new contract that looks like it won't be movable this summer, and can guard 3 positions.

                          It's going to come down to who our long term back-up PG is going to be.
                          Long term backup PG? This window with Lowry is only for a couple more seasons, and for one of them (next year) Wright is still on a dirt cheap rookie deal. Money's not a big concern after the KL/DD/SI/JV deals expire.

                          So there is ONE season where the Wright/FVV overlap in new contracts will come when the tax is a concern (and it will be a huge concern), in 2019-20. But that's not a worry for this summer. This summer the question is whether they want to pay the tax that goes along with having both Powell and FVV on the roster, or would prefer to pay the asset cost to remove Powell (and there may not actually be one, who's to say?) to keep FVV, or would prefer to simply let FVV walk.

                          The following summer will be very interesting, with a massive tax bill lined up, especially if Wright gets a raise. But so much of that depends on what happens this summer that it's hard to project out that far. For now, all we can say with confidence is that the decision on FVV has basically nothing to do with Wright this summer, except insofar as the team thinks Wright makes FVV expendable.

                          For my part, I think anyone who thinks FVV makes Wright expendable, or Wright makes FVV expendable, hasn't been paying attention. It's true, the all-bench unit falls apart when you remove FVV (and filter out minutes with KL/DD). But it's also true that if you leave FVV in there, and remove Wright... it still falls apart. Both lineups (in small-ish samples) have significantly negative net ratings, which is a far cry from the >+20 net rating the all bench unit has when the two PG's play together.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • There have been lots of instances of 3rd string point guards entrusted by their coaches to to be part of crunch time closing units on playoff teams.
                            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Long term backup PG? This window with Lowry is only for a couple more seasons, and for one of them (next year) Wright is still on a dirt cheap rookie deal. Money's not a big concern after the KL/DD/SI/JV deals expire.
                              The three year window was a fairly deliberate choice by management. I can't see them moving a key piece in that window unless they think it makes them immediately better. I'd bet on FVV staying and likely Powell being the odd man out. The fact they've used Miller and brought in both Hayes and Richardson for looks suggests to me where they are headed. Of course, way too soon to know for certain. Have to see what FVV gets in FA. If he blows the doors off in the playoffs then who knows.

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                              • A lot of this off-season debate is getting snagged on what people think Powell's value is. I personally think he still has positive value. Some think we need to attach another pick.

                                I would puke if mlse dealt another first to duck the tax. Either pay both fred and norm, or deal norm from a position of strength. Or carry all 3 young guys(delon too) onto the season and deal one when the opportunity presents.

                                But ya gotta keep fred, and ya gotta not add sweeteners to shed salary. We're playing with the big boys now. Just my 2 cents.
                                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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