Everything VanVleet

[Primer]

Nah, Fred has had an undertone of not liking the shots he's forced to take in this offence to bail everyone out for a while now. Can't blame him considering how hung up so much of this board is on his efficiency while ignoring that context.

Fred gets the ball back with little time left because he dribbled the shit out of the ball for the majority of the shot clock before starting to move it.

There is also the issue that once Fred hits a shot he likes to shoot a long 3 at the very beginning of the shot clock, which usually misses and the other team rebounds.

Only one on the team making excuses is Fred.

[DanH]

Fred gets the ball back with little time left because he dribbled the shit out of the ball for the majority of the shot clock before starting to move it.

There is also the issue that once Fred hits a shot he likes to shoot a long 3 at the very beginning of the shot clock, which usually misses and the other team rebounds.

Only one on the team making excuses is Fred.

Fred's highest eFG% is on shots with 18 seconds or more on the shot clock (53.1%). It goes down steadily the later in the clock he has to shoot (50% 7-18 seconds, 44% 4-7 seconds, 40% 0-4 seconds).

Fred averages 4.6 seconds per touch of the ball, and just over 4 dribbles. Hard to blame him for dribbling more than about 5 seconds off the clock. Yes, those are the highest on the team, but he's, you know, the point guard. His 4 dribbles per touch ranks 35th in the league, hardly some outlier in terms of dribbling the air out of the ball. The league leaders are more like 6 dribbles per touch.

[iblastoff]

That's not deference, per se.
He is constantly looking for the best available shot.

lol people just reaching to defend every single thing scottie does. this is pathetic.

[A.I]

That's not deference, per se.
He is constantly looking for the best available shot.

And that would require him being aggressive and getting a shot himself or finding someone. Or are you saying the best available shot is passing it off to Fred and having him do something with the ball?

[G____Deane]

My read: Fred has long voiced his, let's say, impatience with Scottie stepping up into a bigger offensive role.

Everyone seems to want to believe that Fred wants the ball and Scottie will never be able to step up with him there. But I really, honestly see it quite the opposite. Scottie is shy still, and until he sheds that he'll always defer. Fred wants the deferring to stop. One way for that to happen? More structure and called plays where Scottie is the guy the play is designed to make creation decisions.

This "chaos" comment falls very much in line with that thinking. Stop letting Scottie think he can just hand the ball back. Force him into a bigger role. Then he can be "as good as he wants to be."

I don't know that the system is necessarily the same as the approach. The system is essentially "attack mismatches, use big lineup to attack smaller defenders in the post, generally limit higher risk/higher reward passes to cut down on turnovers." We can still do that with more structure around who initiates and what sort of actions we use to get guys into those advantageous positions.

"He can be as good as he wants to be" basically says Scotty is having a step back season because he doesn't want to be better. Of if he eventually hits a ceiling lower than we hoped, it's because he "doesn't want it enough".

I know you won't see it that way but it's a public shot at Scotty and piss poor leadership from Fred to do it publicly. If Fred does one thing well, it's not take ownership of any of the problems on this team.

After all, he beats good players and team all by himself; just ask him.

[Kagemusha]

And that would require him being aggressive and getting a shot himself or finding someone. Or are you saying the best available shot is passing it off to Fred and having him do something with the ball?

I already explained this in another thread.
4th quarter Scottie is not deferring to anyone. But this seem to happen out of necessity, which of course should be the norm.
Big question is why he only shows up in the 4th?
One plausible theory is that he allows the vets to get their shots first.
Scottie is a smart player and a nice kid. Do you think he ignores everyone's plea for him to be aggressive right from the tip off?
Mind you, even his teammates and the coach eggs him to do that.
Something is really off with the way he played this season.

[Kagemusha]

Fred's highest eFG% is on shots with 18 seconds or more on the shot clock (53.1%). It goes down steadily the later in the clock he has to shoot (50% 7-18 seconds, 44% 4-7 seconds, 40% 0-4 seconds).

Fred averages 4.6 seconds per touch of the ball, and just over 4 dribbles. Hard to blame him for dribbling more than about 5 seconds off the clock. Yes, those are the highest on the team, but he's, you know, the point guard. His 4 dribbles per touch ranks 35th in the league, hardly some outlier in terms of dribbling the air out of the ball. The league leaders are more like 6 dribbles per touch.

Here we go with the numbers game again.
Fred averages 4 dribbles coz he catches and shoots too.
What'a mind boggling is when he dribbles the shit out of the ball and ends up hoisting up a desperation shot against a wall of long defenders.

[DanH]

"He can be as good as he wants to be" basically says Scotty is having a step back season because he doesn't want to be better. Of if he eventually hits a ceiling lower than we hoped, it's because he "doesn't want it enough".

I know you won't see it that way but it's a public shot at Scotty and piss poor leadership from Fred to do it publicly. If Fred does one thing well, it's not take ownership of any of the problems on this team.

After all, he beats good players and team all by himself; just ask him.

He'll be as good as he wants to be is like the most commonly used phrase by stars about their young guys in the NBA. Man alive, everyone has lost their minds around here.

Evan Mobley's older freaking brother described him exactly the same way literally last year. Jrue Holiday's coach described him that way in 2012. Kobe and LeBron each said it about Ben Simmons. A Celtics coach said it about Tatum. Iguodala said it about Bam Adebayo. Otto Porter said it about Kuminga. LeBron's coach said it of him after his rookie season. Kevin Garnett said it about KAT. Elvin freaking Hayes said it about Mychal Thompson in 19 freaking 78.

It's as generic a comment in the NBA as is possible to make. It says a whole lot more about you than about Fred if you think it's an attack.

[DanH]

Here we go with the numbers game again.
Fred averages 4 dribbles coz he catches and shoots too.
What'a mind boggling is when he dribbles the shit out of the ball and ends up hoisting up a desperation shot against a wall of long defenders.

I don't love all of Fred's shot selection either, but my bigger issue is with the offence in general where he does in fact get asked to bail out a lot of possessions where the other guys who are supposed to be creating offence have let the offence reset with like 5 seconds on the clock.

Other guys catch and shoot too. Fred has one of the lowest assisted FGs rates on the team, meaning he is in catch and shoot situations a lot less than basically anyone in spite of it being historically a great strength of his.

[Kagemusha]

I don't love all of Fred's shot selection either, but my bigger issue is with the offence in general where he does in fact get asked to bail out a lot of possessions where the other guys who are supposed to be creating offence have let the offence reset with like 5 seconds on the clock.

Other guys catch and shoot too. Fred has one of the lowest assisted FGs rates on the team, meaning he is in catch and shoot situations a lot less than basically anyone in spite of it being historically a great strength of his.

That's what you get with Nick's chaotic freewheeling offence.
Fred has slowed down, can't shake off his defender anymore. That is the reason he can't make himself open for a C&S

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Meh..This Thread still open..
He still with us..after that post media press conference, he probably still talking.
I bet u that politician practices in the mirror every day. Is he still throwing ppl under the bus. .u know it's that time for jj Reddick podcast..it's coming, u wait.
What a Diva!!!

[TrueTorontoFan]

I don't love all of Fred's shot selection either, but my bigger issue is with the offence in general where he does in fact get asked to bail out a lot of possessions where the other guys who are supposed to be creating offence have let the offence reset with like 5 seconds on the clock.

Other guys catch and shoot too. Fred has one of the lowest assisted FGs rates on the team, meaning he is in catch and shoot situations a lot less than basically anyone in spite of it being historically a great strength of his.

there are times when he wasn't asked and still did it.. Orlando game comes to mind.

[DanH]

That's what you get with Nick's chaotic freewheeling offence.
Fred has slowed down, can't shake off his defender anymore. That is the reason he can't make himself open for a C&S

LOL, no, he's just the only guy on the team that opposing defences care about defending at the arc.

[DanH]

there are times when he wasn't asked and still did it.. Orlando game comes to mind.

Not sure how much more clear I can be with "I don't love all of Fred's shot selection."

Of course there are times. But mostly it's just him being stuck with the ball late.

[Kagemusha]

LOL, no, he's just the only guy on the team that opposing defences care about defending at the arc.

1. That doesn't make any sense.
He can still get open even if defences are focused on him.
(See Curry, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, prime Klay, Dame.. etc etc etc)

2. You don't admit that Fred has slowed down?