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  • golden wrote: View Post
    If I could get 18% interest at the bank, I'd be thrilled. How many games are we waiting for..... 20?
    If fred van was still crappy at Christmas I'd start getting concerned
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
      If fred van was still crappy at Christmas I'd start getting concerned
      We're two weeks away from Christmas, but spoiler alert: VanVleet is still playing like garbage, 27 games (about a third) into the season. If he keeps playing like this, his next contract will be in China. (Also, Kawhi Leonard is definitely leaving Toronto.)

      VanVleet hunts for his shot too often when he's not a real scoring threat - he's picked up an affinity for over-dribbling the ball and throwing up contested shots at the end of the shot clock, which is never good. He's not a very good defender either, he lacks the size and/or length to deal with bigger guards and his defensive IQ isn't enough to compensate for it. He just doesn't have the same passing touch that Kyle Lowry has, and it's led to stagnant offense from the bench. JV gets blamed a lot for the woes of the bench, but replacing him with Ibaka against the Nets hasn't made things any better, really.

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      • DerozansSpurs wrote: View Post
        We're two weeks away from Christmas, but spoiler alert: VanVleet is still playing like garbage, 27 games (about a third) into the season. If he keeps playing like this, his next contract will be in China. (Also, Kawhi Leonard is definitely leaving Toronto.)

        VanVleet hunts for his shot too often when he's not a real scoring threat - he's picked up an affinity for over-dribbling the ball and throwing up contested shots at the end of the shot clock, which is never good. He's not a very good defender either, he lacks the size and/or length to deal with bigger guards and his defensive IQ isn't enough to compensate for it. He just doesn't have the same passing touch that Kyle Lowry has, and it's led to stagnant offense from the bench. JV gets blamed a lot for the woes of the bench, but replacing him with Ibaka against the Nets hasn't made things any better, really.
        he played much better this game actually which helped the bench...


        I am concerned with Delon Wrights regression this year.


        I hate to say it but we almost need Powell to come back

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        • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
          he played much better this game actually which helped the bench...


          I am concerned with Delon Wrights regression this year.


          I hate to say it but we almost need Powell to come back
          He being Fred? Fred did have a good game. Not with the bench though. The starters had him subbed in for Pascal and used him off ball and so of course he was great in those minutes. He sank the bench just as much as usual.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            He being Fred? Fred did have a good game. Not with the bench though. The starters had him subbed in for Pascal and used him off ball and so of course he was great in those minutes. He sank the bench just as much as usual.
            As I recall there was a stretch where they had Delon initiating, Fred playing off ball and Siakim playing with JV and I'm not sure who else (Miles?). It was great, like last years Bench Mob. Even Jack or Matt commented on it and I turned to my wife and said, "That's what guys on the forum have been advocating for the last three weeks at least."

            Unfortunately it only lasted for 3 or 4 minutes.

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              He being Fred? Fred did have a good game. Not with the bench though. The starters had him subbed in for Pascal and used him off ball and so of course he was great in those minutes. He sank the bench just as much as usual.
              Except that they attacked him defensively a lot as well. He was too small and just getting beat off the dribble for easy buckets where he couldn't challenge the shot. It was obviously deliberate as well, as Milwaukee was looking to go at him any chance they could.

              Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                Except that they attacked him defensively a lot as well. He was too small and just getting beat off the dribble for easy buckets where he couldn't challenge the shot. It was obviously deliberate as well, as Milwaukee was looking to go at him any chance they could.

                Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
                The Bucks had a very good game plan. They left OG, Wright, Siakam and Ibaka open from three and took away our shooters. And they went straight at FVV and/or Valanciunas every chance they had. FVV is good when he can guard smaller guards like Conley, for example, but there are going to be match-ups where he is outsized.

                Coaches obviously don't agree, but I much prefer our actual starters to end games. Siakam is an inconsistent three ball shooter but he does so much more than that and the defense has basically no weakness if those 5 are dialed-in.

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                • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  Except that they attacked him defensively a lot as well. He was too small and just getting beat off the dribble for easy buckets where he couldn't challenge the shot. It was obviously deliberate as well, as Milwaukee was looking to go at him any chance they could.

                  Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
                  Meh. The two lowest DRTGs on the team in that Bucks game were FVV and JV. Teams going out of their way to attack specific defensive matchups can often take them away from what they do best and hurt the offence as much as the defence.

                  Fred also looks way better defensively when he plays off ball and has more energy for that end. When he's pounding the ball into the ground he by necessity will have less energy for the other end.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • Love the confidence, but dude still needs to prove he's a serviceable backup PG without having to surround him with the perfect set of ideal conditions.

                    https://ca.nba.com/news/toronto-rapt...51agkhzzxs6kga

                    "Yeah, I'm going to be a starter, it's just a matter of when," VanVleet told NBA.com on Friday ahead of the Raptors' overtime loss to the Brooklyn Nets. "Right now, my role is to come off the bench, be a backup point guard and lead the team and try to be a spark and make big plays."

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                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      Love the confidence, but dude still needs to prove he's a serviceable backup PG without having to surround him with the perfect set of ideal conditions.

                      https://ca.nba.com/news/toronto-rapt...51agkhzzxs6kga

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                      • Had to find this on page 2, there's Fred chatter in several threads.

                        At the start of his career here I thought FVV was for sure too undersized and the Raps were wasting their time on him. He proved me wrong. He can definitely make enough winning plays to be a positive contributor to the team, at least as a back up PG if not eventually more.

                        Like a few other guys on the roster he has struggled with a couple small injuries and a pretty major revamping of the Raps' bench unit. The team as a whole hasn't figured that out yet and it's affecting probably Fred and CJ the most, though we've had some glimpses of Old Fred at times while CJ is starting to accumulate DNP-NotGoodEnough's.

                        I think FVV will be fine with time.
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                        • Its good to be delusional in sports. But at this point, hes not even a top 10 backup PG.

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                          • Truth Teller wrote: View Post
                            Its good to be delusional in sports. But at this point, hes not even a top 10 backup PG.
                            See that's a funny criticism because just six months ago FVV, Eric Gordon, and Lou Williams were presumably the 3 best non-starting guards in the NBA as the three SMOY finalists. That was all smoke and mirrors?
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • Nurse seems to be challenging Fred to be a PnR PG and he's got some Cory Joseph thing going on while he figures that out. I mean yeah we could play him with Delon and let Delon be the primary ball handler and have Fred catch and shoot.

                              Its been successful in the past and Casey went to it often. Then the playoffs come and everyone packs the paint on Delon and denies Fred the shot and they haven't played any other way....

                              I mean I absolutely do not enjoy watching the Raptors right now. They're ragged and disjointed, but Nurse said they're going to try a bunch of things to get ready for the playoffs, and making Fred play the Kyle Lowry role seems to be part of that, even if its ugly.

                              That said, I'd like to see him use Delon more, but with Masai not offering him an extension, maybe the organization sees him as trade bait.

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                              • Mitchell Duong wrote: View Post
                                Nurse seems to be challenging Fred to be a PnR PG and he's got some Cory Joseph thing going on while he figures that out. I mean yeah we could play him with Delon and let Delon be the primary ball handler and have Fred catch and shoot.

                                Its been successful in the past and Casey went to it often. Then the playoffs come and everyone packs the paint on Delon and denies Fred the shot and they haven't played any other way....

                                I mean I absolutely do not enjoy watching the Raptors right now. They're ragged and disjointed, but Nurse said they're going to try a bunch of things to get ready for the playoffs, and making Fred play the Kyle Lowry role seems to be part of that, even if its ugly.

                                That said, I'd like to see him use Delon more, but with Masai not offering him an extension, maybe the organization sees him as trade bait.
                                But the bench was still fine in the playoffs last year once Fred came back. The early playoff bench struggles were because Fred was hurt
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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