Everything VanVleet

[Mitchell Duong]

Bench Mob wasn't really bench mob in the playoffs. Poeltl fell off a cliff. Fred's injury on Game 82 was a tough pill to swallow.

[Mitch P]

Bench Mob wasn't really bench mob in the playoffs. Poeltl fell off a cliff. Fred's injury on Game 82 was a tough pill to swallow.

I've noticed that San Antonio's bench has been great this year and Poeltl's been a big part of it with rebounding and assists. He started last night against Boston and they kicked ass. I think Fred has a role but it might not be one that is worth the money or that hard to replace. I wouldn't be that surprised to see Fred and Delon both gone after this year if they can find someone who is a true potential Lowry replacement.

[GOLDBLUM]

I've noticed that San Antonio's bench has been great this year and Poeltl's been a big part of it with rebounding and assists. He started last night against Boston and they kicked ass. I think Fred has a role but it might not be one that is worth the money or that hard to replace. I wouldn't be that surprised to see Fred and Delon both gone after this year if they can find someone who is a true potential Lowry replacement.

That’s gonna be hard to find.

[BadDinosaur]

I've noticed that San Antonio's bench has been great this year and Poeltl's been a big part of it with rebounding and assists. He started last night against Boston and they kicked ass. I think Fred has a role but it might not be one that is worth the money or that hard to replace. I wouldn't be that surprised to see Fred and Delon both gone after this year if they can find someone who is a true potential Lowry replacement.

Provided we retain Kawhi, we won't need to replace Lowry over the next 3 years. With Siakam improving and guys like OG, Fred and Wright also improving I think we'll be just fine with a slowly declining Lowry in a similar role to that of Derek Fisher on the Lakers. Just do some solid, non impressive ball handling job, plus knock down the occassional clutch 3 and he'll be fine. I think his scoring output can be replaced by other guys mentioned + JV.
I just wish we had a guy like Reddick instead of Miles on our roster. We need another reliable sniper besides Green.

[golden]

See that's a funny criticism because just six months ago FVV, Eric Gordon, and Lou Williams were presumably the 3 best non-starting guards in the NBA as the three SMOY finalists. That was all smoke and mirrors?

Definitely possible. 6moty was Fred getting the lions share of credit for last years vaunted Bench Mob, which does indeed look like a one hit wonder. The bigger issue is that FVV is actually being game-planned for this year, and he hasn’t been able to adapt. Again, he still needs to prove last year wasn’t a fluke, or that Pascal was the real 6moty candidate who should have represented the bench mob last year.

[The Claw Reborn]

The regression of Fred Van Vleet is very real this season.

Even when Kyle was still healthy, there was a stretch that Fred was so dismal offensively and helpless defensively (against the Pistons, New Orleans and Boston).

Lately with Kyle being out, his struggles are more blatant than ever. As a starter, he can not run sets with decent execution. He sometimes dribbles without purpose. He drives the ball to the basket with poor awareness that he is up against taller players who most of the time would embarrass him.

He cannot defend athletic and bigger Point guards.

If his three point shots are not working and most of the time they dont, he is pretty much a liability on the floor.

Ujiri paid him well enough to be a back up Point Guard this offseason but I dont think after 40 games he is able to justify the compensation he was given.

I am still hopeful that he can reverse this but I am losing patience and most are.

His salary is a good filler to a deal that would include a young prospect like OG so to acquire another complementary player to Kyle and Kawhi. Ujiri definitely has a decision to make.

[DanH]

Hmm. Well, right now the Raptors have the pieces (when healthy) to have one of the best up and down rosters in the NBA, with players who fit wonderfully beside each other when used in the correct roles, but seem to be trying to get everyone used to being outside those roles to prepare them for the unpredictability of playoff matchups. They are a consistent and intelligent rotation from being near flawless for 48 minutes.

Not sure I'm on board with sacrificing that to sell low on a fantastic role player whose value is likely at its lowest precisely because of the approach being taken with the roster right now.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

These role players keep defrauding Masai of millions by having one good season (or part of a season).

[GLF]

Hmm. Well, right now the Raptors have the pieces (when healthy) to have one of the best up and down rosters in the NBA, with players who fit wonderfully beside each other when used in the correct roles, but seem to be trying to get everyone used to being outside those roles to prepare them for the unpredictability of playoff matchups. They are a consistent and intelligent rotation from being near flawless for 48 minutes.

Not sure I'm on board with sacrificing that to sell low on a fantastic role player whose value is likely at its lowest precisely because of the approach being taken with the roster right now.

Why do people keep saying that Nurse is doing this on purpose and will move everyone back to their correct roles by the end of the season/playoffs? Where are y'all getting this from because I'm not so sure that's what going to happen at all. Is it just y'all wanting to think positively? lol. Because if he keeps playing all of our role players out of position we are SCREWED. Unless they start playing better in these roles which I don't see happening.

[DanH]

Why do people keep saying that Nurse is doing this on purpose and will move everyone back to their correct roles by the end of the season/playoffs? Where are y'all getting this from because I'm not so sure that's what going to happen at all. Is it just y'all wanting to think positively? lol. Because if he keeps playing all of our role players out of position we are SCREWED. Unless they start playing better in these roles which I don't see happening.

Well, he kind of hinted that he wanted to do that before the season. Play all sorts of different lineups and put guys in a bunch of different situations and roles and play around and see what works and what doesn't.

There is definitely a level of optimism involved though. If one wanted to be pessimistic, we could assume he'll be just as stubborn as Casey - but that would indeed be pessimism, we don't have a track record with him like we did with Casey, such that we could panic with confidence early in regular seasons because we knew he wouldn't change anything.

[KeonClark]

Why do people keep saying that Nurse is doing this on purpose and will move everyone back to their correct roles by the end of the season/playoffs? Where are y'all getting this from because I'm not so sure that's what going to happen at all. Is it just y'all wanting to think positively? lol. Because if he keeps playing all of our role players out of position we are SCREWED. Unless they start playing better in these roles which I don't see happening.

It's mostly wishful thinking by DanH and a couple others and I agree its nonsense. Nurse is doing what he thinks is best to win each game, it's not some grand masterful plan to lose now for some mad scientist experiments

[golden]

Why do people keep saying that Nurse is doing this on purpose and will move everyone back to their correct roles by the end of the season/playoffs? Where are y'all getting this from because I'm not so sure that's what going to happen at all. Is it just y'all wanting to think positively? lol. Because if he keeps playing all of our role players out of position we are SCREWED. Unless they start playing better in these roles which I don't see happening.

I have no idea if Nurse will move FVV back off-ball, but hopefully Masai will realize his mistake and move him off-roster. But what Nurse has been doing on purpose is believing that FVV can be a traditional lead PG in this league, when I had my doubts whether he could even be a backup PG. Otherwise, he's a 5-10 shooting guard (who can't shoot), and that's on Masai for signing such a limited player to a non-trivial chunk of salary cap.

[GLF]

Well, he kind of hinted that he wanted to do that before the season. Play all sorts of different lineups and put guys in a bunch of different situations and roles and play around and see what works and what doesn't.

There is definitely a level of optimism involved though. If one wanted to be pessimistic, we could assume he'll be just as stubborn as Casey - but that would indeed be pessimism, we don't have a track record with him like we did with Casey, such that we could panic with confidence early in regular seasons because we knew he wouldn't change anything.

True. Good point. I hope you're all right at the end because this experimenting needs to stop and stop soon if that's truly what he's doing

[KHD]

fred is bad when he's allowed to dribble.

he isn't actually a PG, he's just short.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I have no idea if Nurse will move FVV back off-ball, but hopefully Masai will realize his mistake and move him off-roster. But what Nurse has been doing on purpose is believing that FVV can be a traditional lead PG in this league, when I had my doubts whether he could even be a backup PG. Otherwise, he's a 5-10 shooting guard (who can't shoot), and that's on Masai for signing such a limited player to a non-trivial chunk of salary cap.

Respectfully disagree.

He’s not playing off ball because Lowry has missed like 10 of 11 games. I mean it’s not like Nurse has that many options. Even if he started Delon, FVV would play like 20 minutes at point.

I agree he’s better off ball.

Look I’m not saying Fred is an all star point guard. Dude makes $9 mill per for 2 years. That’s completely reasonable following his last season.