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  • golden wrote: View Post
    It's pretty clear that the team is force-feeding FVV's development to replace Lowry as soon as possible.
    Well, next year will be his real third season so you'd expect to see a big jump. If not, then maybe they need to consider other options but, yeah, the organization is obviously invested in him.

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    • slaw wrote: View Post
      Well, next year will be his real third season so you'd expect to see a big jump. If not, then maybe they need to consider other options but, yeah, the organization is obviously invested in him.
      It's okay to "hope" for big jump, but not to expect it. He'll be 26 next year, so he's not exactly a young developing player. And PGs usually develop quicker than bigs. The dip we're seeing this year is related both to his role and how teams are defending him. They're taking away the easy pass and daring him to drive to the rim, or make a short mid-range floater, or take a long mid-range jumper. He hasn't figured that out yet and he can't be a starting PG if he doesn't.
      Last edited by golden; Fri Jan 18th, 2019, 01:36 PM.

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      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
        Well that's how it goes for some players. Coaches decide that this guy is worth developing and others can figure it out on their own. Casey-Derozan, Nurse-FVV I guess.
        The former, how did it turn out?

        Hopefully Ujiri realizes some coaches and players have certain ceilings.

        Some just dont have the IT to be the next Pop or the next Harden.

        In this present case, he may not even reach the status of Lowry

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        • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
          The former, how did it turn out?

          Hopefully Ujiri realizes some coaches and players have certain ceilings.

          Some just dont have the IT to be the next Pop or the next Harden.

          In this present case, he may not even reach the status of Lowry
          How did it turn out?

          Well he went from a raw dunker and slasher to a fucking nba star max money guy who can lead teams to the playoffs, and became good enough that he was the piece that led the spurs to pick us to win the Leonard sweepstakes.

          I'd say it turned out pretty damn well
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • KeonClark wrote: View Post
            How did it turn out?

            Well he went from a raw dunker and slasher to a fucking nba star max money guy who can lead teams to the playoffs, and became good enough that he was the piece that led the spurs to pick us to win the Leonard sweepstakes.

            I'd say it turned out pretty damn well
            Lol

            Nah, its an assessment (sometimes very subjective) of an executive if he wants to give max money to a player, sometimes just trying to convince that player and coach to stay but knowing that there are still more holes to fill.

            And as far as how it turned out, both former individuals gave you that empty feeling longing for something more when its all said and done.

            However, we digress because the thread is about this back up Point Guard they are trying to groom and be the understudy of the greatest Raptor PG of all time yet its clear as day that the limitations are so obvious

            Why its a burden for you that someone is critical of this player is laughable

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            • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post

              Why its a burden for you that someone is critical of this player is laughable
              I wouldn't give yourself that much credit. I would go with 'mild annoyance' instead of 'burden'. Cancer is a burden. This is more like those gnats in the summer. No one really gives a shit but you have to swat at them once in a while otherwise they won't leave you alone.

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              • slaw wrote: View Post
                I wouldn't give yourself that much credit. I would go with 'mild annoyance' instead of 'burden'. Cancer is a burden. This is more like those gnats in the summer. No one really gives a shit but you have to swat at them once in a while otherwise they won't leave you alone.
                I am slightly impressed of your analogy but for someone to come out out of nowhere and insult a poster in a game thread then post such flowery words after is a huge of a leap. Well done

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                • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                  Lol

                  Nah, its an assessment (sometimes very subjective) of an executive if he wants to give max money to a player, sometimes just trying to convince that player and coach to stay but knowing that there are still more holes to fill.

                  And as far as how it turned out, both former individuals gave you that empty feeling longing for something more when its all said and done.

                  However, we digress because the thread is about this back up Point Guard they are trying to groom and be the understudy of the greatest Raptor PG of all time yet its clear as day that the limitations are so obvious

                  Why its a burden for you that someone is critical of this player is laughable
                  there were tons of executives that were willing to give demar max money. including his hometown lakers. and i expect him to get close to the max again on his next contract
                  To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                  • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
                    there were tons of executives that were willing to give demar max money. including his hometown lakers. and i expect him to get close to the max again on his next contract

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                    • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                      I agree but you have to help me what teams then had the cap space to give him the max?

                      But again it goes back to the fact that the intention of giving max money to a player may not all based on whether that player is categorized as an elite game changer, may it just be because of a “need”, or a recruitment tool, or a team (not the raptors) desperate to make the post season. Some individuals just dont deserve it. You and I can definitely name a few not deserving of such max compensation.

                      As far as Van Vleet is concerned, does he deserve the 8 million per?
                      Ya i think he does 8 mil for a 2 year term aint a bad contract. he's making about the same as cory joseph,d.j agustine, jarred bayless, rajon rondo and he makes less money then jordan clarkson, dante exum and matthew delladova. For his age i think 8 mil a year is a great contract for him. Probably the same range as what delon is going to get offered this offseason.
                      To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        How did it turn out?

                        Well he went from a raw dunker and slasher to a fucking nba star max money guy who can lead teams to the playoffs, and became good enough that he was the piece that led the spurs to pick us to win the Leonard sweepstakes.

                        I'd say it turned out pretty damn well
                        Yes it did. If the FVV-Nurse bromance turns out half as good as Derozan-Casey, then at least maybe we'll have a replacement level starting calibre PG. But I don't understand why FVV is getting such a gift-wrapped opportunity.

                        One issue I do have is investing so much in the development of an older player who already has easily identifiable physical limitations in a league that is trending freakier every year. Guts and guile will only get you so far, otherwise you could just bring Jason Kidd or Steve Nash back out of retirement. At least DeMar has great size for the SG position (height and wingspan) and is still an explosive athlete. Pascal also makes sense to give him all the extra opportunity he can handle because of the upside of his unique physical tools. Not sure how much more upside FVV really has, especially as a starting PG.

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                        • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
                          Ya i think he does 8 mil for a 2 year term aint a bad contract. he's making about the same as cory joseph,d.j agustine, jarred bayless, rajon rondo and he makes less money then jordan clarkson, dante exum and matthew delladova. For his age i think 8 mil a year is a great contract for him. Probably the same range as what delon is going to get offered this offseason.
                          The prevailing market dictates how much these role players get and most just don’t deserve it.

                          As far as Fred is concern, I actually don’t mind the 8 mil per as that is a decent sum of money to serve as salary filler in a trade down the road.

                          What I am very concern is the fact (and I am going back to what Golden had previously posted) that this organization seem to be hellbent in grooming Fred to be the next Lowry.

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                          • Would be nice if they were showcasing him but he kinda sucked so that backfired
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • The Claw Reborn wrote: View Post
                              The prevailing market dictates how much these role players get and most just don’t deserve it.

                              As far as Fred is concern, I actually don’t mind the 8 mil per as that is a decent sum of money to serve as salary filler in a trade down the road.

                              What I am very concern is the fact (and I am going back to what Golden had previously posted) that this organization seem to be hellbent in grooming Fred to be the next Lowry.
                              well you asked if he deserved 8 mil a year and clearly he does based on the players in his pay range. And of course the market dictates how much these guys make, but 8 mil is nothing to a NBA team that just barely above a rookie contract of a top 5 picks.
                              Theirs very few actual rotation players who deserve less then 8 mil (C.J miles) but hes not even in the rotation anymore. I mean we have seen what he can do last season, maybe he's struggling maybe teams have figured him out but we pretty much have to play him either way as delon cant run a offense. Signing him to a 2 year term was smart rather then going the Norm route. After this season if he doesn't bring his game back we can shop him as an expiring.
                              To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                              • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                                Would be nice if they were showcasing him but he kinda sucked so that backfired
                                I think it's more that Masai wants the option of trading Lowry without skipping a beat in the off-season, and also to show Kawhi that they've got a talented young core to keep contending when Lowry leaves in 2020. Pascal's doing his part, but OG, FVV, Wright and Powell are probably scaring Kawhi away.

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