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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    So, yeah, we agree. I'm just saying it's exceedingly unlikely the former is what happens.
    So... you're suggesting he'll ... bet on himself?

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    • 20m per...does anyone really think fred gets that? That seems excessively high, is the cap gonna take another huge jump next year? Fred is awesome, but he is gonna have to improve alot to justify that type of pay. And i dont see that happening, nor do i see teams getting desperate enough to make that type of offer regardless of the FA class.

      I'd be hesitant to even pay fred a 4/60 deal, even if he is to become the teams starting PG. 4/52 or less sounds ok. And i think he csn be a starting PG, but perhaps not in the traditional sense. He might fit best next to a couple of guys that can ISO and/or run some PnR, but if he is going to be expected to carry a ~20% + usage as a starter, then that might be a problem. He'll have to improve significantly in the PnR, as a passer and driver to deserve that role. Maybe he can do that, we'll have to see i guess but i do have my doubts. 6th man seems like an ideal role for fred, he can handle some point duty, can shoot, plays great D and has the clutch gene i think, hes definitely not afraid.

      I dont see any reason why the raps should trade him though. There really is no reason for the raps to worry about his potential pay or potential trade return. If teams come calling then you listen to offers. Otherwise, let the season play out, evaluate what you got from fred, let the market decide what hes worth, and pull the trigger if you like the number or let him walk if you don't.

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      • I've turned into a huge Fred fan. He is a smart player who can do most everything pretty well. He's going to struggle around the rim, has to have the Chris Paul automatic pull up at the elbow to be a real PnR threat, but regardless I'd rather him than Rozier. That being said, he has some obvious limitations, though he makes up for most of them real well with intensity, skill and smarts, I'd like to see a contract in the 13-15 range. He's never going to be good finishing around the rim, will struggle to create his shot and likely need two other good ball handler (creators) on the floor. To me, FVV is a guy that really fits with the team and what they are all about, I'd love to keep him around.

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        • JawsGT wrote: View Post
          20m per...does anyone really think fred gets that? That seems excessively high, is the cap gonna take another huge jump next year? Fred is awesome, but he is gonna have to improve alot to justify that type of pay. And i dont see that happening, nor do i see teams getting desperate enough to make that type of offer regardless of the FA class.

          I'd be hesitant to even pay fred a 4/60 deal, even if he is to become the teams starting PG. 4/52 or less sounds ok. And i think he csn be a starting PG, but perhaps not in the traditional sense. He might fit best next to a couple of guys that can ISO and/or run some PnR, but if he is going to be expected to carry a ~20% + usage as a starter, then that might be a problem. He'll have to improve significantly in the PnR, as a passer and driver to deserve that role. Maybe he can do that, we'll have to see i guess but i do have my doubts. 6th man seems like an ideal role for fred, he can handle some point duty, can shoot, plays great D and has the clutch gene i think, hes definitely not afraid.

          I dont see any reason why the raps should trade him though. There really is no reason for the raps to worry about his potential pay or potential trade return. If teams come calling then you listen to offers. Otherwise, let the season play out, evaluate what you got from fred, let the market decide what hes worth, and pull the trigger if you like the number or let him walk if you don't.
          Cap's not taking a huge jump, but there is a good bit of cap room out there and few players to spend it on, especially with these recent extensions rolling in. And the cap has been climbing consistently since the cap jump. The summer Biyombo got his massive 18M per year deal overpay, the cap jumped from 70M to 94M. That was a crazy jump. But now we have a typical jump every offseason of about 8M, a full third of that insanity, meaning the cap is projected at 117M. That's 25% above the new water mark that 2016 set at the time. So a Fred deal at 20M would be like a deal at 16M that summer. And there's not quite as much cap room as there was then - but Fred is also a lot further up the chain than guys like Biyombo or Mozgov were.

          And the whole point is that that sort of pay would NOT be justified. But welcome to the NBA, guys get unjust salaries (in both directions) every day and twice on Sunday.

          Your last statement is essentially what is of concern. If you have confidence that you aren't matching what the market decides (as it's not a huge leap to think he's in line for a significant raise next summer), your options are trade or let him walk for nothing. If you are happy letting him walk for nothing, fine, but that's a decision that needs to be made consciously, that you are signing up to likely lose him for nothing more than cap space.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Thoughts:

            - I had to go to page 4 to find this thread. How underrated, by our own fanbase, is Fred VanVleet?
            - In all the hype for Pascal and the hope for OG, I don't think I've seen one person in this forum suggest that Fred might take another step this year.
            - I'm pretty sure Fred is taking another step this year.
            - How nicked up was Fred last season? You hear that about a lot of guys by the end of the year, but his quickness/athleticism are clearly better right now than what we saw for most of last year. He can take guys off the dribble and create enough space for layups. He couldn't do that end of last year. He also rolled his ankle in game 1. An 8 man rotation is going to be a serious health gamble, hope they don't get burned by the injury bug.
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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            • World class shooter.

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              • Fred is going to get paid. He might be the best free agent available for the 2020 class. Who's his competition at PG? Jeff Teague? Goran Dragic? Reggie Jackson? He's going to make Rozier money.. actually probably more than Rozier money. Could see Orlando making an offer. Was Weltman here when we signed Fred?


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                • S.R. wrote: View Post
                  Thoughts:

                  - I had to go to page 4 to find this thread. How underrated, by our own fanbase, is Fred VanVleet?
                  - In all the hype for Pascal and the hope for OG, I don't think I've seen one person in this forum suggest that Fred might take another step this year.
                  - I'm pretty sure Fred is taking another step this year.
                  - How nicked up was Fred last season? You hear that about a lot of guys by the end of the year, but his quickness/athleticism are clearly better right now than what we saw for most of last year. He can take guys off the dribble and create enough space for layups. He couldn't do that end of last year. He also rolled his ankle in game 1. An 8 man rotation is going to be a serious health gamble, hope they don't get burned by the injury bug.
                  - There are people on here who thought, and I suspect still think, that there are 10 back up PGs in the league better than FVV.
                  - FVV has definitely been overlooked this offseason. Again, this is really his third season.....
                  - Sure looks like it.
                  - He looks like a completely different player.
                  - Nurse wanted to win on ring night. They'll be 9 or 10 deep starting game 2.....

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                  • I want to know how Fred suddenly got 200% better at finishing in traffic
                    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                    • Do we have the money to re-sign him next year?

                      Mamba Mentality

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                      • once he broke out after sixers series. he's been on a roll.

                        "When we hit our lowest point we are open to the greatest change"

                        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                        • 007 wrote: View Post
                          I want to know how Fred suddenly got 200% better at finishing in traffic
                          Need to see it in more than 1 game, against teams with real rim protection
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • The Great One wrote: View Post
                            Do we have the money to re-sign him next year?
                            Hes on our team. You dont need cap space
                            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                            • The Great One wrote: View Post
                              Do we have the money to re-sign him next year?
                              Feels like all our guys are going to be demanding big pay raises. OG will want an extension too. We can afford them but how limited will our roster be after we sign them all? Glad I'm not Masai. This could get tricky, especially if he wants a shot at Giannis, even if it's slim.

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post

                                Feels like all our guys are going to be demanding big pay raises. OG will want an extension too. We can afford them but how limited will our roster be after we sign them all? Glad I'm not Masai. This could get tricky, especially if he wants a shot at Giannis, even if it's slim.
                                It's a good problem to have. If a guy who is producing like an all star, then he IS an all star. Wait to see how it develops but you can't just shed quality players for a pipe dream. The Knicks are always clearing space for a big summer. Nobody wants to be the Knicks.
                                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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