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  • Sonny wrote: View Post
    Will or should the Raptors re-sign FVV?
    Will they? No idea. Should they? I don't think so.
    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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    • Sonny wrote: View Post
      Will or should the Raptors re-sign FVV?
      I'm not sure what they will do.. but I don't think they should. I love Fred but he's going to be expensive and will probably eat into our 2021 budget. I'd rather have the dream of landing Giannis than killing that just for Fred. Plus Davis has proven he can be a capable replacement. Not as steady but good enough. And with Lowry back for another year, we don't have to rush to find his replacement so fast.

      We could try to sign him for 1 more year, but I don't think he accepts that. The other option is to give him a competitive contract and then try to flip him later in the year or the following summer before free agency. That becomes risky though. What if he hurts himself or his play gets worse, etc.


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      • Sonny wrote: View Post
        Will or should the Raptors re-sign FVV?
        That will depend on how much (and also for how long). I think they would like to keep him (and likewise Fred would like to stay), but if there's another team offering too much $, both the team and FVV will be realistic and part ways. Basically it will depend more on the market at this point, which will be very much driven by how Fred does this year
        2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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        • I think you gotta try and keep him, but i guess it depends on the desired flexibilty for the offseason financials. I feel fred has limitations, but hard to let him go...he has shown up in big games.

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          • I wonder if he takes a deal similar to Lowry. An overpay, but only for 1 year. Keep our guy and stay flexible for the big summer.

            Question (probably for Dan H) if we sign him for a 1 year like Lowry do we retain his bird rights?

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            • Shredder wrote: View Post
              I wonder if he takes a deal similar to Lowry. An overpay, but only for 1 year. Keep our guy and stay flexible for the big summer.

              Question (probably for Dan H) if we sign him for a 1 year like Lowry do we retain his bird rights?
              Sure do. That would be the ideal, give him a one year deal, keep flexibility for the year after, and then either he fits the budget beside a star next summer or if they miss out on the star, they have more cap to spend on Fred if his market is higher.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Nice 30 point game from FVV last night he outplays Lillard. This guy is getting paid this summer. He might be looking at a $100 mill contract.

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                • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                  Nice 30 point game from FVV last night he outplays Lillard. This guy is getting paid this summer. He might be looking at a $100 mill contract.
                  Sadly this was always the conundrum. The Raptors should hesitate to give him 15M+ if he doesn't prove he can be a scorer. But if he proves he's a scorer, he's suddenly potentially worth more on the market than they can afford to put on their books and maintain flexibility.

                  The main hope at this point is that China crashes the market (ideally only for this season) and causes the cap to fall, suppressing the free agent market. Or maybe the market is just cool on him regardless - he should have been in line for more than the 10Mx2 we gave him last time, too.

                  But he's been really good, and is looking like a great option to play off of stars (like Siakam) even if there are still some questions about him being the primary play runner with his limitations driving to the rim.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post

                    Sadly this was always the conundrum. The Raptors should hesitate to give him 15M+ if he doesn't prove he can be a scorer. But if he proves he's a scorer, he's suddenly potentially worth more on the market than they can afford to put on their books and maintain flexibility.

                    The main hope at this point is that China crashes the market (ideally only for this season) and causes the cap to fall, suppressing the free agent market. Or maybe the market is just cool on him regardless - he should have been in line for more than the 10Mx2 we gave him last time, too.

                    But he's been really good, and is looking like a great option to play off of stars (like Siakam) even if there are still some questions about him being the primary play runner with his limitations driving to the rim.
                    So if Brogdon is 4 years $85 mill and Rozier is 3 years $58 mill, market value for FVV has to be in the $20mill per range right?

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                    • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                      So if Brogdon is 4 years $85 mill and Rozier is 3 years $58 mill, market value for FVV has to be in the $20mill per range right?
                      Well, he's UFA, not RFA, which muddies the market a bit. He's also a free agent in a summer where there are very few other free agents, and extensions tend to come in a little cheaper than free agency deals anyway. But I had 18M put aside for him, which is probably where his ball park figure is now, but if he gets to the end of the season and his PPG are up above 20 instead of in the mid-teens, that number likely goes up.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                        So if Brogdon is 4 years $85 mill and Rozier is 3 years $58 mill, market value for FVV has to be in the $20mill per range right?
                        Bogdon was a full time starter, Rozier was a back-up similar to Fred. Would that factor into what teams offer him?

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                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                          Bogdon was a full time starter, Rozier was a back-up similar to Fred. Would that factor into what teams offer him?
                          Is Fred a back-up? He's starting on an 8-3 team coming off a championship (I know I'm not allowed to say the last part). He's averaging 17 points, 8 assists and shooting 41% from three. He's also starting to get to the free throw line (something he has never done before). His numbers look very close to Rozier's for a bad team.

                          Again, I think you just pay him and if circumstances change or 2021 presents another superstar possibility and his salary is in the way, then I don't think you'll have any trouble trading FVV.

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                          • slaw wrote: View Post

                            Is Fred a back-up? He's starting on an 8-3 team coming off a championship (I know I'm not allowed to say the last part). He's averaging 17 points, 8 assists and shooting 41% from three. He's also starting to get to the free throw line (something he has never done before). His numbers look very close to Rozier's for a bad team.

                            Again, I think you just pay him and if circumstances change or 2021 presents another superstar possibility and his salary is in the way, then I don't think you'll have any trouble trading FVV.
                            Well, would you give Fred the max? If not, there is a line somewhere where you wouldn't sign him.

                            The upside is we have his Bird Rights. I suspect Masai will try to offer something where the AAV might be a little lower than the market (which is hopefully in the low 20's), say 20M average, but with a dip in year two to maximize 2021 cap room, and with a player option year 5 guarantees him 100M. That's assuming he keeps up those averages for the year.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post

                              Well, would you give Fred the max? If not, there is a line somewhere where you wouldn't sign him.

                              The upside is we have his Bird Rights. I suspect Masai will try to offer something where the AAV might be a little lower than the market (which is hopefully in the low 20's), say 20M average, but with a dip in year two to maximize 2021 cap room, and with a player option year 5 guarantees him 100M. That's assuming he keeps up those averages for the year.
                              Based on the Rozier and Brogdon deals we have a rough (or very rough) idea of what he is going to get broadly-speaking. From an asset management perspective, you can't really afford to lose him for nothing and Ujiri has done deals in the past to hang on to guys for value as much as anything. If both of the above presumptions are correct then the most likely outcome is a Rozier or Brogdon type deal and I'm fine with that - I don't really care about the particulars or the salary cap impact in 2021.

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                              • slaw wrote: View Post

                                Based on the Rozier and Brogdon deals we have a rough (or very rough) idea of what he is going to get broadly-speaking. From an asset management perspective, you can't really afford to lose him for nothing and Ujiri has done deals in the past to hang on to guys for value as much as anything. If both of the above presumptions are correct then the most likely outcome is a Rozier or Brogdon type deal and I'm fine with that - I don't really care about the particulars or the salary cap impact in 2021.
                                If the deal is on the order of 20M, sure. I don't know that we can be confident in that. Free agent markets can be hard to predict at the best of times.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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