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  • planetmars wrote: View Post

    Would cock block Dallas from obtaining Giannis. I could see Cuban going after him in 2021 to play with Doncic and Porzingis.
    And Cuban would find a way to pay him $50M under the table and off the books. Some company Cuban has ties to suddenly hires Giannis to shill for their line of luxury mouse pads .....

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Dallas has a track record of overpaying mid-tier free agents (Parsons, Barnes, DAJ, Matthews, etc...) and they are capped out. This year, they just need to get into the playoffs, but next year there will be more pressure to start building a legit contender around Doncic & Porzingis.

      Dallas goes through long stretches of bricking the wide open looks that Luka generates, which will become more frustrating in the playoffs. They also need a second ball-handler in the starting lineup and somebody who can guard PGs.... FVV is the perfect fit. Mavs were also going to give Danny Green a big offer, according to him.... another overpay.
      Oh, for sure, Dallas would probably do it. But they have no avenue unless Masai is playing ball, and I think he's only playing ball if Fred has a few options on the table that aren't the Raps. If Dallas is the only team knocking with a 25M+ offer, no team is knocking with a 25M+ offer, because they can't offer that without the Raps' help.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • Fred is a solid pro. He has definite strengths. Like most NBA'ers there are aspects of his game that would impact his marketability. These are (a) creating opportunities for himself and others and (b) his ability to get to the basket and score / draw fouls.

        Playing with Lowry is a good fit for Fred as his weaknesses are Kyle's strengths. This would apply to players like Doncic too. Along with other intangibles, (unless you are a max player) generally ones value depends on the skill set, who else is available (supply) and the number teams wanting that skill set (demand). Fred should get interest from a number of teams, including the Raptors. I don't see Fred though as a full time starting PG unless he can improve on (a).In terms of a primary (i.e. 1B, #2) scoring role he needs to improve on (b). If a team is going to offer him starting PG, scoring role and $ then I think Masai passes. Otherwise we should be trying to keep the guy.

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        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          The $25/$30M rumour is crazy. That's borderline max money there. Which team have that kind of cap space, that could also use an upgrade at PG? Mock drafts are speculating that the top half of the lottery will be filled with point guards too.

          Hope Masai is looking at Fred like Biyombo. If Fred can get the $25M contract, all the power to him. I think he can be our PG "of the future".. but not at that figure. Love the guy but that's way too much for me. Was thinking max $20M.. I mean Brogdon got $85/4. Brogdon is better.. and there is a chance the salary cap drops with all the China crap that happened, and the TV viewership shrinking.
          Yes, that is crazy for FVV. I love him, but at that price and with Davis waiting in the wings for a bigger role couldn't they just explore a trade option instead?

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          • Call me crazy, but I think the fact that he was undrafted is an important variable.

            To go undrafted, then get your shot with a great club, then get a vote for Finals MVP with that club along with the chip?

            I think he stays

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              Yes, that is crazy for FVV. I love him, but at that price and with Davis waiting in the wings for a bigger role couldn't they just explore a trade option instead?
              Can't trade him once the season ends since he's a free agent, unless its a S&T.

              Can trade him before the deadline, but I don't think Masai does it. He probably wants a chance to sit down and talk to Fred and his agent to see what his asking price is. He won't reveal it to Masai until after season ends though.

              So I think it might end up being the Bismack situation. He gets an offer so big that Masai doesn't bother matching it and wishes him good luck. We lose the asset for nothing and move on. Hopefully Masai and Fred can get to a number that makes them both happy. For me personally $25M is too high. I can live with the $85/4 that Brogdon got, but that would be the highest.

              Like you said, TD can step into the bigger role.

              The one thing I don't want is to lose the ability to sign a max contract in 2021.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post

                Who has ever argued for not letting FVV do SOME ball handling to improve his game? Who has ever said that?

                Does FVV need to be on the ball all the time to be able to develop his on the ball game?

                And yeah, who cares whether they win basketball games...

                Using Pascal is a hilarious example. I don't recall the team forcefeeding Pascal the ball when he hadn't developed those skills yet. I recall them sending him to the G-League to expand his game. I recall them letting him thrive in his ideal role beside creators like Lowry and Kawhi while his game naturally developed and he gradually took on more responsibility in the offence as his skill set progressed. That does indeed seem like a smart way to do it, and to have worked wonderfully. What a nice example you brought up to contrast with the way FVV has too often been used, thank you for that.
                Well, in turn:

                You can't constantly complain about usage and roles and how they don't fit your preferred model with precision and then equivocate with the, "I'm not dogmatic about it! I didn't say he had to do what I've been harping about with certainty 100% of the time... that's ridiculous!'.

                Second, they are winning games. They've won lots games. Would they be 19-0 if FVV only played off the ball?

                And, as for my Siakam example, I think you're seeing what you want to see. They have brought FVV along slowly into the role he currently occupies. They did send him to G-League, they did have him as a back-up, they did run him out with Lowry in those multi-PG sets and now, with Lowry hurt, he's assumed a bigger role. There seems to be this presumption by some on this board that somehow FVV has been handed his role and success by the organization, which couldn't be further from the truth: he's seized his opportunity and played his way into larger roles and more responsibility until he is just now, in his third full season, coming into his own. Not every player's development path (or approach is identical) and there is no ideal way to bring every player along.


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                • slaw wrote: View Post

                  Well, in turn:

                  You can't constantly complain about usage and roles and how they don't fit your preferred model with precision and then equivocate with the, "I'm not dogmatic about it! I didn't say he had to do what I've been harping about with certainty 100% of the time... that's ridiculous!'.

                  Second, they are winning games. They've won lots games. Would they be 19-0 if FVV only played off the ball?

                  And, as for my Siakam example, I think you're seeing what you want to see. They have brought FVV along slowly into the role he currently occupies. They did send him to G-League, they did have him as a back-up, they did run him out with Lowry in those multi-PG sets and now, with Lowry hurt, he's assumed a bigger role. There seems to be this presumption by some on this board that somehow FVV has been handed his role and success by the organization, which couldn't be further from the truth: he's seized his opportunity and played his way into larger roles and more responsibility until he is just now, in his third full season, coming into his own. Not every player's development path (or approach is identical) and there is no ideal way to bring every player along.

                  I have had little issue with FVV taking on too large a role with Lowry out. But he was taking on that role while sharing the court with both Lowry and Siakam early in the season, which was when I did most of my complaining.

                  FVV is great and deserves whatever he gets. The coach just uses him wrong sometimes in terms of getting the most out of the team right now, and most often I see little benefit long term in forcing him into that role quite so often. That is and has always been my complaint.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post

                    I have had little issue with FVV taking on too large a role with Lowry out. But he was taking on that role while sharing the court with both Lowry and Siakam early in the season, which was when I did most of my complaining.

                    FVV is great and deserves whatever he gets. The coach just uses him wrong sometimes in terms of getting the most out of the team right now, and most often I see little benefit long term in forcing him into that role quite so often. That is and has always been my complaint.
                    Do you not find it hard to say that the coach is using him wrong given how well the team has performed, and how well fred himself has performed? Fred is the teams starting PG, with or without Lowry in the lineup. I remember i commented last season at some point that i couldnt envision how fred could actually get better. I mean, what else could we expect from a "vertically challenged" guy that defends well despite his limitations, shoots well but had limited playmaking ability? Well i was wrong. He has actually gotten better at the things he did well, and has improved considerably in the areas he was weak. And certainly his expanding role on the team has alot to do with that. And that should continue, because maybe in a year or two fred will be able to anchor a bench unit, which seems to be his biggest flaw, right?

                    And this is nurse we are talking about dan, probably the best coach in the league. He's putting OG in positions outside his normal role, davis and norm as well. Pascal was in that situation last season. Absolutely integral going forward for the team. The fact that this team can afford to put some of the younger players in those situations and still win a ton of games speaks volumes on where this franchise and the players are presently at, and where they may go in the future.

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                    • JawsGT wrote: View Post

                      Do you not find it hard to say that the coach is using him wrong given how well the team has performed, and how well fred himself has performed? Fred is the teams starting PG, with or without Lowry in the lineup. I remember i commented last season at some point that i couldnt envision how fred could actually get better. I mean, what else could we expect from a "vertically challenged" guy that defends well despite his limitations, shoots well but had limited playmaking ability? Well i was wrong. He has actually gotten better at the things he did well, and has improved considerably in the areas he was weak. And certainly his expanding role on the team has alot to do with that. And that should continue, because maybe in a year or two fred will be able to anchor a bench unit, which seems to be his biggest flaw, right?

                      And this is nurse we are talking about dan, probably the best coach in the league. He's putting OG in positions outside his normal role, davis and norm as well. Pascal was in that situation last season. Absolutely integral going forward for the team. The fact that this team can afford to put some of the younger players in those situations and still win a ton of games speaks volumes on where this franchise and the players are presently at, and where they may go in the future.
                      Real quick here, what are we describing as Fred having gotten better at? Is there a measure you can point to that suggests he is significantly better running the team now than he was last season?

                      His assists/36 are up about 10%. Hardly an earth shattering improvement, especially considering how much more he has simply had the ball. His passing was always half decent, and it remains so, but he still struggles at actually creating offence pretty much as much as he always has. His effective FG% is down even though his 3 point shooting is up, because his 2 point FGA's are at a career high (excluding his tiny minute rookie season), while his 2 point FG% is a career low (41%, again excluding his rookie year). His turnover rate is up about 50% on a per minute basis, though only a slight uptick on a per individual possession basis (as his usage is up) - but an uptick nonetheless, not an improvement there.

                      The big story this year with FVV is he is playing more and shooting more, and therefore scoring more and putting up bigger raw assist numbers. His efficiency is down from the field, and only really in line with his career average because he is indeed drawing a lot more fouls, which is a good improvement. But he's still having his successes buoyed by the minutes where he plays the role he is meant to play. And we shouldn't shrug that off - being able to play big minutes and slightly increase your usage while mostly maintaining your efficiency is a good thing. But it's not some huge leap he's made that we can assign credit for to his usage. It's a relatively expected mid-career gradual improvement.

                      The questions about FVV were whether he could run an offence as the threat in the primary action. Fred has a nice pull up three, which helps with that. But in the minutes he's played without Lowry or Siakam to rely on to really run the offence, he's put up those bulk scoring numbers that a huge usage will get you - 22 points per 36, 7.5 assists per 36, yay. But he's done it with a 39% FG%, he's done it with a low 3PT% by his standards (36%) due to his effectiveness being limited in pull ups instead of catch and shoot opportunities, he's done it while turning the ball over at an incredible rate (nearly 5 TOVs per 36). And the team has gotten smacked around in those minutes. But at least those minutes make sense to have him try that stuff (although frankly the team would probably have more success with Davis running the offence and FVV playing off ball). Having him try to stretch his on-ball game while Siakam stands in the corner is just not an ideal utilization of talent.

                      Speaking of those pull up threes... He's definitely taking more of them this year. He took 1.7 per game last year and hit only 32% of them. And yet he shot well from three because on his catch and shoot opportunities (2.9 per game), he hit 41% of them. This year all his attempts are up, with the bigger minutes and usage, and let's see. Yep, up to 3 attempts per game on pull up threes (up to about 40-45% of his attempts, from 35% last year). Of course, he's improved at those, yeah? Oh, he's only hitting 30% this year, down from last year. But, as I mentioned above, his three point shooting is up this year, and if he's taking more pull ups and making less of them... Oh, right, on his 3.9 catch and shoot threes per game he's hitting on 48% of them. Meanwhile, Fred has taken 20 pull up midrange shots. He has hit 2 of them. He has a 38% FG% on drives, and 36 assists to 21 turnovers on those drives.

                      Fred has gotten better at the things he always did well. He is largely the same at the things he was poor at, perhaps slightly better, and remains poor at them overall. He's just doing them more. Which was necessitated to some degree with Lowry out, and I didn't mind it in that context. Those are the situations where you see if guys can stretch their role. Fine. But if we are going to place players outside their ideal roles for the sake of development, let's be realistic about the actual results of that development.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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