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  • With Detroit shedding Andre Drummond before the trade deadline, does this potentially spell the end for FVV and the Raptors? Wanted to know what you guys think about this since there were some earlier rumors about Pistons targeting FVV this summer.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    • ebrian wrote: View Post
      With Detroit shedding Andre Drummond before the trade deadline, does this potentially spell the end for FVV and the Raptors? Wanted to know what you guys think about this since there were some earlier rumors about Pistons targeting FVV this summer.
      What do I think? Thanks for the memories & let the Terence Davis Era begin.

      That said, I'm pretty sure that Masai & Bobby will pay market-value to keep the asset and unload FVV or other salaries if a big name FA wants to sign here in 2021.

      Comment


      • ebrian wrote: View Post
        With Detroit shedding Andre Drummond before the trade deadline, does this potentially spell the end for FVV and the Raptors? Wanted to know what you guys think about this since there were some earlier rumors about Pistons targeting FVV this summer.
        If FVV repeats his playoff performance from rounds 3 and 4 pay him whatever he wants. We can move Norm or he will opt out of his P.O with how he is playing lately
        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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        • Masai and Bobby will want Fred back. But it will be like what happened with Biyombo. Biyombo found big money in Orlando and took it. Masai didn't flinch when he did. In the meantime Biyombo has been on awful teams and has become an afterthought. His next contract will be for the vet minimum, if he's lucky.

          With Fred it will be the same. He can continue to play with the champs but it will have to be under Masai's conditions. Whatever his "max" is. If Fred wants the big money and play for a crap team in Detroit, all the power to him. But he'll never get close to winning another ring if he does and Masai/Bobby will move on.

          It's why giving that extension to Kyle was pretty big. If Fred leaves we have Kyle and TD (and McCaw!) for 2020. No biggie.

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          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            Masai and Bobby will want Fred back. But it will be like what happened with Biyombo. Biyombo found big money in Orlando and took it. Masai didn't flinch when he did. In the meantime Biyombo has been on awful teams and has become an afterthought. His next contract will be for the vet minimum, if he's lucky.

            With Fred it will be the same. He can continue to play with the champs but it will have to be under Masai's conditions. Whatever his "max" is. If Fred wants the big money and play for a crap team in Detroit, all the power to him. But he'll never get close to winning another ring if he does and Masai/Bobby will move on.

            It's why giving that extension to Kyle was pretty big. If Fred leaves we have Kyle and TD (and McCaw!) for 2020. No biggie.
            Well lets give Freddy a bit more credit than that. I've been one of TD's biggest supporters, but he still has a ways to go before he can step into Fred's shoes. Hitting shots and running an offense are very different things. Fred can run this team in the absence of Lowry, not sure Terrence can yet.

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              Well lets give Freddy a bit more credit than that. I've been one of TD's biggest supporters, but he still has a ways to go before he can step into Fred's shoes. Hitting shots and running an offense are very different things. Fred can run this team in the absence of Lowry, not sure Terrence can yet.
              True, but there has to be a limit in bringing back a talent like that. He's not a potential super star.. I don't even know if he'll ever become an all-star. If we go and match a $25M contract, it also messes with our cap situation in 2021, which could prevent us from signing a big star or trading for one.

              I want Fred back but for me it has to be under $20M/yr.. more like $18M/yr. And if he makes more elsewhere and leaves I'll be fine, even if it potentially means we lose more games next year.

              Remember Fred and TD were both undrafted. Our scouts know how to find these guys. They'll find another if they have to.

              Comment


              • The Biyombo situation was quite a bit different than FVV. Toronto really had no way to pay Biyombo but they have room to pay FVV. I'm not sure how the front office looks at value, etc. but it doesn't seem to be their approach to ascribe a value and not go above it but rather to target guys they want and pay them what is needed to get them in Toronto. If they want FVV they'll pay him. Either way, it won't affect what happens in 2021 in any material way.

                Comment


                • slaw wrote: View Post
                  The Biyombo situation was quite a bit different than FVV. Toronto really had no way to pay Biyombo but they have room to pay FVV. I'm not sure how the front office looks at value, etc. but it doesn't seem to be their approach to ascribe a value and not go above it but rather to target guys they want and pay them what is needed to get them in Toronto. If they want FVV they'll pay him. Either way, it won't affect what happens in 2021 in any material way.
                  Biyombo was also a one-dimensional role player, whereas Freddy is a guy who was getting borderline all star talk this year, improving annually, and a well rounded point guard.

                  So yeah it's not even close to the same
                  It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                  Comment


                  • planetmars wrote: View Post

                    True, but there has to be a limit in bringing back a talent like that. He's not a potential super star.. I don't even know if he'll ever become an all-star. If we go and match a $25M contract, it also messes with our cap situation in 2021, which could prevent us from signing a big star or trading for one.

                    I want Fred back but for me it has to be under $20M/yr.. more like $18M/yr. And if he makes more elsewhere and leaves I'll be fine, even if it potentially means we lose more games next year.

                    Remember Fred and TD were both undrafted. Our scouts know how to find these guys. They'll find another if they have to.
                    And for the first time in a while, we own all of our draft-picks going forward, and we could get even more picks if we decide to unload Ibaka, Gasol or FVV in a sign & trade to a team that doesn't have cap-space. Would love to see what Masai/Bobby/Tolzman could do with a full stack of chips.

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      And for the first time in a while, we own all of our draft-picks going forward, and we could get even more picks if we decide to unload Ibaka, Gasol or FVV in a sign & trade to a team that doesn't have cap-space. Would love to see what Masai/Bobby/Tolzman could do with a full stack of chips.
                      They could possibly draft a fred vanvleet!
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                      Comment


                      • planetmars wrote: View Post

                        True, but there has to be a limit in bringing back a talent like that. He's not a potential super star.. I don't even know if he'll ever become an all-star. If we go and match a $25M contract, it also messes with our cap situation in 2021, which could prevent us from signing a big star or trading for one.

                        I want Fred back but for me it has to be under $20M/yr.. more like $18M/yr. And if he makes more elsewhere and leaves I'll be fine, even if it potentially means we lose more games next year.

                        Remember Fred and TD were both undrafted. Our scouts know how to find these guys. They'll find another if they have to.
                        i don't think there's a universe where he makes less than $20 M. and i think they'll try to keep him in the 20 to 25M range and i'd be happy with that.

                        Comment


                        • chris wrote: View Post

                          i don't think there's a universe where he makes less than $20 M. and i think they'll try to keep him in the 20 to 25M range and i'd be happy with that.
                          He's so shitted on by his own fanbase lol

                          Here's some comparable players deals signed LAST year with the annual value:

                          Middleton: 32 mil
                          Russell: 28 mil
                          Brogdon: 21.5 mil
                          Rozier: 18.5 mil

                          And people want Fred for 18, lol

                          planetmars, you really think he deserves less than this group? These are the NBA players currently 18 and 19.5 per year. He's better than at least 8/10 of these players, probably 9, and Draymond makes more than that because of the next 3 years
                          56. Kent Bazemore $19,269,663 $0 $0 $0
                          57. Tyler Johnson $19,245,370 $0 $0 $0
                          58. Goran Dragic $19,217,900 $0 $0 $0
                          59. Jeff Teague $19,000,000 $0 $0 $0
                          60. Evan Turner $18,606,556 $0 $0 $0
                          61. Draymond Green $18,539,130 $22,246,956 $24,026,712 $25,806,468
                          61. Tristan Thompson $18,539,130 $0 $0 $0
                          63. Allen Crabbe $18,500,000 $0 $0 $0
                          64. Reggie Jackson $18,086,956 $0 $0 $0
                          65. Julius Randle $18,000,000 $18,900,000 $19,800,000 $0
                          Last edited by KeonClark; Fri Feb 7th, 2020, 05:53 PM.
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                          Comment


                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                            He's so shitted on by his own fanbase lol

                            Here's some comparable players deals signed LAST year with the annual value:

                            Middleton: 32 mil
                            Russell: 28 mil
                            Brogdon: 21.5 mil
                            Rozier: 18.5 mil

                            And people want Fred for 18, lol

                            planetmars, you really think he deserves less than this group? These are the NBA players currently 18 and 19.5 per year. He's better than at least 8/10 of these players, probably 9, and Draymond makes more than that because of the next 3 years
                            56. Kent Bazemore $19,269,663 $0 $0 $0
                            57. Tyler Johnson $19,245,370 $0 $0 $0
                            58. Goran Dragic $19,217,900 $0 $0 $0
                            59. Jeff Teague $19,000,000 $0 $0 $0
                            60. Evan Turner $18,606,556 $0 $0 $0
                            61. Draymond Green $18,539,130 $22,246,956 $24,026,712 $25,806,468
                            61. Tristan Thompson $18,539,130 $0 $0 $0
                            63. Allen Crabbe $18,500,000 $0 $0 $0
                            64. Reggie Jackson $18,086,956 $0 $0 $0
                            65. Julius Randle $18,000,000 $18,900,000 $19,800,000 $0
                            some people here just consistently have unrealistic expectations or hopes of what the market will dictate it takes to retain our guys. this time last year some were thinking pascal would get a 4 for 80M deal.

                            he's going to make more money than terry rozier FFS

                            Comment


                            • Market is funny. Bad teams overpay to keep/get talent. When there is not a lot of cap space guys make less. A lot of the contracts you pointed out Keon were done in the cap boom.

                              I remember guys thinking 2Pat would make at least $10M. He made about $5M.

                              Charlotte overpaid to sign Rozier. We should not overpay to keep Fred.

                              I still think the Brogdon contract is the benchmark. I personally don't want to see it go over that.

                              Ultimately though I have complete, 100% faith in Masai. He can't do anything wrong in my eyes. If he wants to give Fred $30M a year, I won't be mad. Masai got us a chip. He'll never hear a bad word from me for at least 5 years

                              Comment


                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                He's so shitted on by his own fanbase lol

                                Here's some comparable players deals signed LAST year with the annual value:

                                Middleton: 32 mil
                                Russell: 28 mil
                                Brogdon: 21.5 mil
                                Rozier: 18.5 mil

                                And people want Fred for 18, lol

                                planetmars, you really think he deserves less than this group? These are the NBA players currently 18 and 19.5 per year. He's better than at least 8/10 of these players, probably 9, and Draymond makes more than that because of the next 3 years
                                56. Kent Bazemore $19,269,663 $0 $0 $0
                                57. Tyler Johnson $19,245,370 $0 $0 $0
                                58. Goran Dragic $19,217,900 $0 $0 $0
                                59. Jeff Teague $19,000,000 $0 $0 $0
                                60. Evan Turner $18,606,556 $0 $0 $0
                                61. Draymond Green $18,539,130 $22,246,956 $24,026,712 $25,806,468
                                61. Tristan Thompson $18,539,130 $0 $0 $0
                                63. Allen Crabbe $18,500,000 $0 $0 $0
                                64. Reggie Jackson $18,086,956 $0 $0 $0
                                65. Julius Randle $18,000,000 $18,900,000 $19,800,000 $0
                                Terence Davis... $1.69 + GST

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