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  • Spencer Dinwiddie makes $11M/yr. Dennis Schroeder makes $15M/yr. Those are very reasonable comps to FVV.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Spencer Dinwiddie makes $11M/yr. Dennis Schroeder makes $15M/yr. Those are very reasonable comps to FVV.
      Guy is gonna make easy 20 million per..problem is Detroit might offer 30 million.
      "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
      My kitchen is always open to friends"

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        Spencer Dinwiddie makes $11M/yr. Dennis Schroeder makes $15M/yr. Those are very reasonable comps to FVV.
        Sure. They are also meaningless comps. He'll get paid something near 20M this summer. 18, great. 22, OK. Could even be higher.

        The decision is not whether he should get paid that much. The decision is do you want to be the ones to pay him, or do you want to let him walk and have to fill the hole he leaves. At a max deal I take the latter, but at anything down near 20M I take the former, no matter what comps you think are reasonable.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          ...The decision is do you want to be the ones to pay him, or do you want to let him walk and have to fill the hole he leaves...
          And how much would THAT cost you. I have no clue who might be available as a replacement. Maybe others here do have ideas on that. Are any of them as good or better? What would THEY cost. And what would it cost the Raptors to replace Fred with a lesser player, with no experience with Nurse's systems or the players on this team? Again, I don't know, but you need to consider context. If Fred's replacements cost the Raptors 4 or 5 games lost next season, that has an impact on the team going forward. If Fred's replacement either is equivalent, or adds wins, that has a different impact. It is those impacts that need to be considered with regards to the replacement cost. MLSE will go into tax if the results are there. If the result, one way or the other, is a major top ten Free Agent acquisition, how does that figure into the costs?

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          • Puffer wrote: View Post

            And how much would THAT cost you. I have no clue who might be available as a replacement. Maybe others here do have ideas on that. Are any of them as good or better? What would THEY cost. And what would it cost the Raptors to replace Fred with a lesser player, with no experience with Nurse's systems or the players on this team? Again, I don't know, but you need to consider context. If Fred's replacements cost the Raptors 4 or 5 games lost next season, that has an impact on the team going forward. If Fred's replacement either is equivalent, or adds wins, that has a different impact. It is those impacts that need to be considered with regards to the replacement cost. MLSE will go into tax if the results are there. If the result, one way or the other, is a major top ten Free Agent acquisition, how does that figure into the costs?
            Schroeder: $15M. Dinwiddie, $11M. TD2: $0.9M. That's the range you want to be in.

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            • golden wrote: View Post

              Schroeder: $15M. Dinwiddie, $11M. TD2: $0.9M. That's the range you want to be in.
              I understand the range you WANT to be in. But what will you have to pay to get someone equivalent to Fred, or better when Fred's contract is up. Existing salaries are a function of who was available, how well a player was playing and where a particular team's needs were in a specific time frame. It's not like buying a Toyota Rav4 2015 model, where you have your choice of a couple of hundred vehicles in the GTA. That car is a commodity. Players with Fred's ability are not a commodity. In this ranking, in October of 2019, Fred was ranked as the number 10 shooting guard, between Caris LaVert and D'Angello Russell and ahead of Jaylen Brown and Danny Green. since then he has demonstrated ability at the PG spot, and had a great playoff run as well. I would say he has improved his rank. So what would that cost you?

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              • golden wrote: View Post

                Schroeder: $15M. Dinwiddie, $11M. TD2: $0.9M. That's the range you want to be in.
                Its hard to compare those guys. Schroeder signed his contract in 2017. Dinwiddie signed his part way through last year as a bench player who was averaging 12 pts the year before and it is a 3 year with P.O in final year. Fred has a pretty damm good resume, 6th man finalist, NBA champion, hit the biggest shots on the biggest stage.
                Brogdon average 15,3 and 4 before getting his deal. Freds at 18 7 and 4. It pretty clear he's going to get brogdon $.
                The type of money your talking your looking at guys like corey joseph, Satoransky, Hell Delon got 14 mil last summer and he could barley scratch our rotation.
                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                • Puffer wrote: View Post

                  I understand the range you WANT to be in. But what will you have to pay to get someone equivalent to Fred, or better when Fred's contract is up. Existing salaries are a function of who was available, how well a player was playing and where a particular team's needs were in a specific time frame. It's not like buying a Toyota Rav4 2015 model, where you have your choice of a couple of hundred vehicles in the GTA. That car is a commodity. Players with Fred's ability are not a commodity. In this ranking, in October of 2019, Fred was ranked as the number 10 shooting guard, between Caris LaVert and D'Angello Russell and ahead of Jaylen Brown and Danny Green. since then he has demonstrated ability at the PG spot, and had a great playoff run as well. I would say he has improved his rank. So what would that cost you?
                  Powell and TD2 can easily replace FVV at SG for a fraction of the cost next year. We could pick up a backup PG on the trade market - those guys are always available. I don't see the big problem here.

                  The most difficult thing to replace is not Fred's production... it's his contribution to the team culture. I don't take that lightly, but it's not worth $30M either. I hope people aren't forgetting how bad FVV cratered when Pascal was out of the lineup.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    Powell and TD2 can easily replace FVV at SG for a fraction of the cost next year. We could pick up a backup PG on the trade market - those guys are always available. I don't see the big problem here.

                    The most difficult thing to replace is not Fred's production... it's his contribution to the team culture. I don't take that lightly, but it's not worth $30M either. I hope people aren't forgetting how bad FVV cratered when Pascal was out of the lineup.
                    I think the most difficult thing would be replacing a guy who has the balls the knock down the shot on the biggest stage. I think freds going to prove his worth in the playoffs with some more huge shots. Dude been doing this since college, that clutch factor to me if freddys biggest asset
                    To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                    • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                      I think the most difficult thing would be replacing a guy who has the balls the knock down the shot on the biggest stage. I think freds going to prove his worth in the playoffs with some more huge shots. Dude been doing this since college, that clutch factor to me if freddys biggest asset
                      Sixers series was the biggest stage, tbh. Only Kawhi and Serge showed up for that.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Sixers series was the biggest stage, tbh. Only Kawhi and Serge showed up for that.
                        Bigger stage then the Finals?
                        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                        • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                          Bigger stage then the Finals?
                          We don't get to the Finals if we don't beat the Sixers. That was the toughest series. And then there was Game 3 of the Bucks series, where Fred went 1 for 11. That was the second most pivotal game of the entire playoff run - basically an elimination game. Those are bigger stages to me, in terms of competition and rising to it. Even Lowry said the Sixers series was the hardest.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            We don't get to the Finals if we don't beat the Sixers. That was the toughest series. And then there was Game 3 of the Bucks series, where Fred went 1 for 11. That was the second most pivotal game of the entire playoff run - basically an elimination game. Those are bigger stages to me, in terms of competition and rising to it. Even Lowry said the Sixers series was the hardest.


                            To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Powell and TD2 can easily replace FVV at SG for a fraction of the cost next year. We could pick up a backup PG on the trade market - those guys are always available. I don't see the big problem here.

                              The most difficult thing to replace is not Fred's production... it's his contribution to the team culture. I don't take that lightly, but it's not worth $30M either. I hope people aren't forgetting how bad FVV cratered when Pascal was out of the lineup.
                              Neither player is remotely the defender Fred is. We talk about production because that's what gets players paid in the NBA, not because it's what determines their worth. And you want to peg a guess how much Norm and TD will be making two seasons from now, literally one year after Fred would re-sign?

                              I don't think anyone is disputing that Fred at 30M is an overpay. The dispute is with your apparent expectation that he's only worth 15M or so at most.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post

                                Neither player is remotely the defender Fred is. We talk about production because that's what gets players paid in the NBA, not because it's what determines their worth. And you want to peg a guess how much Norm and TD will be making two seasons from now, literally one year after Fred would re-sign?

                                I don't think anyone is disputing that Fred at 30M is an overpay. The dispute is with your apparent expectation that he's only worth 15M or so at most.
                                Not to speak for someone else, but I think Golden's dispute is not whether FVV is worth 20M+, it's whether he is worth that to this team.

                                I think some team in need of a starting PG is going to take a chance on FVV and offer him the big bucks. I'm on the fence here because with Lowry only around for another season who is going to eventually take over for him? That player is not on our roster yet. Buuuttt, I'm not sold that FVV can produce as he has this season as a full time starter without Lowry by his side.

                                .
                                Last edited by LJ2; Mon Feb 10, 2020, 11:44 AM.

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