Everything VanVleet

[planetmars]

So was thinking about which teams in free agency could screw the Raptors over with a shitty poison pill contract for FVV. Not really that many teams with cap space. According to this article:
http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl..._8276_24620041

Only 5 teams with potential cap space this summer: Indiana, Chicago, LAL, Dallas and Atlanta.

... of course things can change if teams trade out guys, waive guys, etc

Of that bunch Atlanta is the only team I probably fear the most. They could use a backup PG after Shroder. And they won't really be able to chase many free agents due to how bad they are. FVV sort of makes sense too under a Coach Bud system... more so than someone like Marcus Smart.

[Puffer]

So was thinking about which teams in free agency could screw the Raptors over with a shitty poison pill contract for FVV. Not really that many teams with cap space. According to this article:
http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl..._8276_24620041

Only 5 teams with potential cap space this summer: Indiana, Chicago, LAL, Dallas and Atlanta.

... of course things can change if teams trade out guys, waive guys, etc

Of that bunch Atlanta is the only team I probably fear the most. They could use a backup PG after Shroder. And they won't really be able to chase many free agents due to how bad they are. FVV sort of makes sense too under a Coach Bud system... more so than someone like Marcus Smart.

How much can they offer? Can Raptors offer a longer contract, back loaded to equal more money? What would Lowry command at the end of his contract? I can see VV working himself into a starting PG position in a few years.

[DanH]

So was thinking about which teams in free agency could screw the Raptors over with a shitty poison pill contract for FVV. Not really that many teams with cap space. According to this article:
http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articl..._8276_24620041

Only 5 teams with potential cap space this summer: Indiana, Chicago, LAL, Dallas and Atlanta.

... of course things can change if teams trade out guys, waive guys, etc

Of that bunch Atlanta is the only team I probably fear the most. They could use a backup PG after Shroder. And they won't really be able to chase many free agents due to how bad they are. FVV sort of makes sense too under a Coach Bud system... more so than someone like Marcus Smart.

Not a lot of cap room, but a simple MLE offer (essentially the Norm deal) would screw us over plenty good. Going 10M deeper into the tax is a big ask (along with the ~20M extra in tax) for a guy who plays the same position as Lowry and Wright, even with the two PG lineups.

[3inthekeon]

At the moment, Smart would be valued higher because NBA GMs have a much larger sample size on Smart - good & bad. Smart also has a "reputation" as a bulldog defender / agitator. And he did have some nice playoff games as the starter when IT went down last year, so he's got exposure working for him. I'd peg Fred at 3-6M/yr right now in the eyes of NBA GMs, depending on how he does in the playoffs.

An interesting reference is 2Pat, who is a high IQ multi-position defender who plays a high demand/low supply position (stretch 4) and he's only making $5M/yr. He killed his value by closing the season poorly and laying an egg in the playoffs, when people were speculating 15M/yr was his floor. Then there was Biyombo, who had like one great playoff series against the Cavs and he's making $17M/yr.

Biyombo got his in 2016, when too many teams had too much cap space. And "white board" Hennigan made sure he had too much space by trading 4 years of Tobias for 2 expiring contacts.Also gave Jeff Green $15 million and D. J. Augustine 4/$29 million. Plus traded Dipo and Sabonis for Serge. Babcocked himself into unemployment.

[planetmars]

Not a lot of cap room, but a simple MLE offer (essentially the Norm deal) would screw us over plenty good. Going 10M deeper into the tax is a big ask (along with the ~20M extra in tax) for a guy who plays the same position as Lowry and Wright, even with the two PG lineups.

I wonder what MLSE's budget is? $10M in tax is possibly a concern, but in a pinch Masai could deal either CJ or Norm. I like the idea of having smallish contracts to use in a trade if we have to. As a fan I don't care if they are $10M in tax or $50M in tax. Just want the best possible team put together. The team is better with FVV than without both from a talent perspective and an asset perspective.

Also, I look at FVV more as a 4th guard behind KL, DD and Wright and not so much as a 3rd PG behind Lowry and Wright. Powell seems to be the odd man out if too much depth is a concern.

[DanH]

I wonder what MLSE's budget is? $10M in tax is possibly a concern, but in a pinch Masai could deal either CJ or Norm. I like the idea of having smallish contracts to use in a trade if we have to. As a fan I don't care if they are $10M in tax or $50M in tax. Just want the best possible team put together. The team is better with FVV than without both from a talent perspective and an asset perspective.

Also, I look at FVV more as a 4th guard behind KL, DD and Wright and not so much as a 3rd PG behind Lowry and Wright. Powell seems to be the odd man out if too much depth is a concern.

Oh, I agree I don't care if they pay a lot of tax. But realistically, if they bring back FVV, they probably look to reduce salary somewhere. They'd be paying 35M in tax if FVV got the full MLE (currently projected to be paying about 15M in tax), on top of a 140M salary (so 175M total vs 145M). That's just a real hard sell when it's for a guy who can most charitably be described as your 4th guard. Especially when the front office has shown a propensity for finding value in late picks and minimum salary undrafted free agents like (checks notes) Fred VanVleet.

Now, that may well be a Powell deal, which, if it brings back future value like a pick or something, I wouldn't be opposed to. But if it means a JV trade to shed salary? I'd rather let Fred walk. And once you are considering that option, that's when the discussion about whether to move him at the deadline becomes relevant. Obviously it would have to be for value (like if there is a first round pick out there for him, do the Raps say no?), but it's not as obvious as anyone would like.

[Mapko]

Hard to say. They could definitely keep him in the off-season. There's no guarantee another team offers a significant deal. But if they want to shy away from the risk he walks, then they would explore his trade value. If there's a 1st rounder for him out there, do you turn it down?

I'm sure they are already exploring the same possibility with Bebe and Bruno, who will probably not be qualified, and will probably only come back if they can be had for near the minimum.

I was kind of curious if we should consider trading FVV.
In playoffs Casey will not run out 10-12 guys. Who will be odd man out?
The way Fred played last 10 days, he is in.
I might be very tempted if we could get a 1st or a current rookie w some potential.
Risky? Probably. Mind you Delon has played solid too.
Unfortunately not a lot of time to decide/make up mind.

[S.R.]

I don't think this is a time to sell current assets for future ones. It could take years before they have a chance at the Finals like they have this year.

[Mapko]

I don't think this is a time to sell current assets for future ones. It could take years before they have a chance at the Finals like they have this year.

Thats what Im leaning towards. FVV might me just too valuable in East playoff run (thats ripe for taking).
He has been playing a lot lately (prior to that it was Delon). Just wondering, was Fred being showcased? He sure as hell is making Casey look good.

[white men can't jump]

It's been really impressive how Fred has played. However, it's also really sad because you realize how poor our stars can be at playing with poise.

[planetmars]

Thats what Im leaning towards. FVV might me just too valuable in East playoff run (thats ripe for taking).
He has been playing a lot lately (prior to that it was Delon). Just wondering, was Fred being showcased? He sure as hell is making Casey look good.

Fred is a soon to be RFA that makes $1.3M this year.. not really a type of guy you "showcase". He's playing because Casey trusts him and he's doing well.

[LJ2]

It's been really impressive how Fred has played. However, it's also really sad because you realize how poor our stars can be at playing with poise.

Yeah Fred's been playing well, but if you gotta rely on him to win games you're in trouble. Lowry is the key and he hasn't shown the consistency of seasons past. Maybe he's waiting for after the break to rev things up?

[wall-e]

Yeah Fred's been playing well, but if you gotta rely on him to win games you're in trouble. Lowry is the key and he hasn't shown the consistency of seasons past. Maybe he's waiting for after the break to rev things up?

Maybe he just needs some inspiration a-la watching his favorite football team win the super bowl

[Puffer]

Glad to see Fred finally made it to 8 pages. It seems we've been talking about him a lot...I guess in the game and trade deadline threads.

[3inthekeon]

Nate Duncan watching Freddy carve up the Celts

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It's time to start talking about the restricted free agency of Fred Van Vleet this offseason. He's been fantastic this year.

— Nate Duncan (@NateDuncanNBA) 7 February 2018

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