Everything VanVleet

[golden]

For my part, I think anyone who thinks FVV makes Wright expendable, or Wright makes FVV expendable, hasn't been paying attention. It's true, the all-bench unit falls apart when you remove FVV (and filter out minutes with KL/DD). But it's also true that if you leave FVV in there, and remove Wright... it still falls apart. Both lineups (in small-ish samples) have significantly negative net ratings, which is a far cry from the >+20 net rating the all bench unit has when the two PG's play together.

Thanks, Dan .... voice of reason. So, if FVV walks, Masai's task will be finding a backcourt partner who has chemistry with Wright and rest of the bench, as opposed to Freddy is the superstar of the bench which will invariably fall apart if he leaves. I have trust that Masai can find that guy.

BTW - if we keep both Powell and FVV (at say $8M), how much tax are we talking about here?

[Sonny]

Not any PG, but I trust Masai to be able to find the low-cost talent to replace FVV if he leaves - that's what Masai does. And I trust the team to develop the player and the new system to be able to maximize their strengths. He couldn't finish at the rim and couldn't hit 3's, but the team gave him time to find his game and develop chemistry.

Are people forgetting where FVV himself came from? I love Freddy, but backup PG is most available position on the FA or trade market.

Well they have Lorenzo Brown at the 905. Do you think he can replace VanVleet's role here? i don't.

[Sonny]

A lot of this off-season debate is getting snagged on what people think Powell's value is. I personally think he still has positive value. Some think we need to attach another pick.

I would puke if mlse dealt another first to duck the tax. Either pay both fred and norm, or deal norm from a position of strength. Or carry all 3 young guys(delon too) onto the season and deal one when the opportunity presents.

But ya gotta keep fred, and ya gotta not add sweeteners to shed salary. We're playing with the big boys now. Just my 2 cents.

Exactly. And VanVleet is a huge part of this team. He's one of the main reason why the Raptors are good.

[3inthekeon]

Masai said MLSE is willing to pay tax. (BTW, MLSE gave the Leafs money to stockpile players who were permanently injured, which is about the only way to go over the NHL salary cap).

But coffee is for closers. The way last year ended, Masai was certainly in the right to not become a taxpayer this season - there was no way to expect the Raptors to be legitimate contenders.

Now we certainly do seem to be legitimate contenders. If that holds true through the playoffs, It certainly makes sense for the Raptors to keep assets and pay tax. Both Masai and MLSE are sensible.

[golden]

Well they have Lorenzo Brown at the 905. Do you think he can replace VanVleet's role here? i don't.

After Lorenzo's epic one-game audition in the Wizards game? Hell, no.

But who knows? Nobody thought that FVV could be FVV last year or even earlier this year. Hard to bet against Masai and Casey these days when it comes to finding low-cost gems and player development.

[planetmars]

We won't have to give up a pick to trade Powell. People might be thinking about what we needed to dump Carroll, but the main reason we did that was because of his injuries and age. Team's will take a chance on Powell at 10M. He was a hot commodity at the trade deadline last year (Orlando wanted him in the Ibaka deal) and he's had only one down season. He's still a physical specimen and he can defend. He needs a summer to really work on his handles and his 3-pt shot and I think he'll be fine. Especially his hanhdles and maybe add another finishing move (e.g. EuroStep)

I hope you're right.. but I fear that teams will be looking for a pick. Teams are smart and cap space is a luxury.

But if it came down to losing another pick (just to trade Powell) to keep FVV I would do it.

Mind you I was pissed off at the Carroll trade. But this season has blown me away. I would do that Carroll trade all over again to get a chance to repeat this epic season again.

[The Great One]

After Lorenzo's epic one-game audition in the Wizards game? Hell, no.

But who knows? Nobody thought that FVV could be FVV last year or even earlier this year. Hard to bet against Masai and Casey these days when it comes to finding low-cost gems and player development.

I did.

[KeonClark]

Masai said MLSE is willing to pay tax. (BTW, MLSE gave the Leafs money to stockpile players who were permanently injured, which is about the only way to go over the NHL salary cap).

But coffee is for closers. The way last year ended, Masai was certainly in the right to not become a taxpayer this season - there was no way to expect the Raptors to be legitimate contenders.

Now we certainly do seem to be legitimate contenders. If that holds true through the playoffs, It certainly makes sense for the Raptors to keep assets and pay tax. Both Masai and MLSE are sensible.

Glengarry Glen Ross reference. Take your like and go.

[golden]

I did.

Yep. T-man, you called it loud and proud. You also called Harrison Barnes as a stud and future superstar in this league.

[The Great One]

Yep. T-man, you called it loud and proud. You also called Harrison Barnes as a stud and future superstar in this league.

Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not perfect.

[Sonny]

lmao

[KeonClark]

Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not perfect.

Yep were always willing to overlook your role in Jurassic park 3 (the Vince Vaughn one)

[DanH]

Thanks, Dan .... voice of reason. So, if FVV walks, Masai's task will be finding a backcourt partner who has chemistry with Wright and rest of the bench, as opposed to Freddy is the superstar of the bench which will invariably fall apart if he leaves. I have trust that Masai can find that guy.

BTW - if we keep both Powell and FVV (at say $8M), how much tax are we talking about here?

Well, baseline is keeping Powell and letting FVV walk, filling out the roster with minimum salaries. We're pegged at $130.7M in salary in that scenario, plus 14.8M in taxes. So 145.5M in total salary commitment.

Adding FVV at the MLE (projected at $8.568M next year), moves the salary up to $137.8M, and the tax bill up to $32.8M, taking to the total to $170.6M.

So, the difference between the assumed baseline and bringing back FVV is $25.1M, in spite of his salary only being an assumed $8.6M.

It would be huge for the team if FVV got stuck with a tax-MLE as his max offer, as then his salary would be $5.3M, which is only a few million shy of the full MLE, but with taxes compounding so much that far past the line, would mean his total cash impact would be only $14.1M instead of $25.1M. So that $3M in salary saves the Raps $11M, and a $160M total salary cost including tax is probably the upper limit of still turning a profit, even with increased playoff revenues - meaning maybe the Raps just keep both guys in that scenario.

Either way 2019-20 is going to be ugly, but I've been focusing on this summer for now, as the following year will depend very much on the next two playoff runs anyway (and cap projections can change a lot over more than a calendar year).

[golden]

Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not perfect.

[3inthekeon]

Glengarry Glen Ross reference. Take your like and go.

Gonna get our Eldorado this year. No more steak knives.