Everything VanVleet

[golden]

I mean, we're 10, 12 games in. Lowry was off to a dreadful start scoring, and is already back up to 12.1/7.3/5. He got in one year with 14.2/8.7/4.8, and another year 16.2/6.9/5.6. If he gets up near 16 ppg and the Heat are in the top 2 slots, he'll be in the discussion. Coaches are partial to the OGs.

He's made 6 consecutive all star games when he's been on a playoff team. Don't count the old dog out.

Nah, bro. Butler and Bam are getting in before Lowry and they won’t be putting 3 Heatles on an all-star team again for awhile, unless Herro is a starter and the 3rd guy.

[The Great One]

Nah, bro. Butler and Bam are getting in before Lowry and they won’t be putting 3 Heatles on an all-star team again for awhile, unless Herro is a starter and the 3rd guy.

That + the Heat are 7-5.

[The Great One]

2013-2014 was the start of the We The North era right?

[The Claw Reborn]

Nah still so small of a sample size to declare anything 3 months in advance of the ASG

[Puffer]

Nah still so small of a sample size to declare anything 3 months in advance of the ASG

True enough. Got to recognize media hype for what it is. We'll see what the numbers are once the season is over. But it's a good start. I mean "there's a chance."

[The Claw Reborn]

Has his numbers sliding?

His TS% ranked 142nd in the league (all players) and 64th (amongst guards)

His AST Ratio is ranked 44th in the league amongst guards

His Net Rating is 100th in the league

or is he is just a prototypical Complementary/ Role player getting tops in minutes, trying to be the “Man”, extending beyond what he is more than capable of?

[Fuchan]

Has his numbers sliding?

His TS% ranked 142nd in the league (all players) and 64th (amongst guards)

His AST Ratio is ranked 44th in the league amongst guards

His Net Rating is 100th in the league

or is he is just a prototypical Complementary/ Role player getting tops in minutes, trying to be the “Man”, extending beyond what he is more than capable of?

He can try to be the man, but these things generally work themselves out. Keep the pressure off our rookies until they develop and hopefully it's obvious by next season that this is Scotties team

[JawsGT]

Has his numbers sliding?

His TS% ranked 142nd in the league (all players) and 64th (amongst guards)

His AST Ratio is ranked 44th in the league amongst guards

His Net Rating is 100th in the league

or is he is just a prototypical Complementary/ Role player getting tops in minutes, trying to be the “Man”, extending beyond what he is more than capable of?

Do we know what he is capable of though? I can ask that question of almost any player on the team actually. And that will be half the battle for this season, trying to figure out who can do what and who deserves more usage. This really is a development year, and not just for the Scottie's and Delano's and Watanabe's, but for the whole team, as a group and individually. For me though, I want Fred to learn to be more of a floor general, and learn to be a director on the floor and look to get others their shots. Maybe he just has to figure out his own limits offensively before he focuses on distribution, or maybe he will always be a score first guard that cant figure out how to involve the roller. It took Lowry a few years in a Raps uni before he really figured it out I think, so I'm trying to be patient with Fred.

[DanH]

Do we know what he is capable of though? I can ask that question of almost any player on the team actually. And that will be half the battle for this season, trying to figure out who can do what and who deserves more usage. This really is a development year, and not just for the Scottie's and Delano's and Watanabe's, but for the whole team, as a group and individually. For me though, I want Fred to learn to be more of a floor general, and learn to be a director on the floor and look to get others their shots. Maybe he just has to figure out his own limits offensively before he focuses on distribution, or maybe he will always be a score first guard that cant figure out how to involve the roller. It took Lowry a few years in a Raps uni before he really figured it out I think, so I'm trying to be patient with Fred.

Over Lowry's final 7 seasons (so starting from his first all star season, leaving out his first two years here) with the Raptors, Lowry averaged a 31.4 AST% and 14.7 TOV%. He scored 18.4 points per game on a 52.6 eFG% and 23.3 USG%.

Fred is putting up a 27.5 AST% and 15.2 TOV% this year. He is scoring 19.4 PPG on a 52.9 eFG% and 22.9 USG%.

Now, yeah, I think Fred has some room for improvement with the assist/TO ratio, but not by a lot, to pretty much replicate Lowry's raw numbers.

I am extremely impressed Fred is even in the ballpark there, considering where he started from with his playmaking, and although he is still most lethal as an off ball threat (the same role the Raptors rather loved to slide Lowry into more and more later in his career here), he's become pretty good on that front.

Even specifically for involving the roll man, 26% of Fred's assists this year have been to Precious and Birch, not a single one of them a three. Khem has received 16 assists from Fred - and no more than 5 from anyone else. Same story for Precious - 16 from Fred, 8 from Barnes, no more than 4 from anyone else. Heck, if Precious could finish a lob to save his life those numbers may look even nicer (though Khem is basically automatic on feeds from Fred, 16 for 24 off Fred passes, so he's finding him in his spots at least).

[Primer]

Over Lowry's final 7 seasons (so starting from his first all star season, leaving out his first two years here) with the Raptors, Lowry averaged a 31.4 AST% and 14.7 TOV%. He scored 18.4 points per game on a 52.6 eFG% and 23.3 USG%.

Fred is putting up a 27.5 AST% and 15.2 TOV% this year. He is scoring 19.4 PPG on a 52.9 eFG% and 22.9 USG%.

Now, yeah, I think Fred has some room for improvement with the assist/TO ratio, but not by a lot, to pretty much replicate Lowry's raw numbers.

I am extremely impressed Fred is even in the ballpark there, considering where he started from with his playmaking, and although he is still most lethal as an off ball threat (the same role the Raptors rather loved to slide Lowry into more and more later in his career here), he's become pretty good on that front.

Even specifically for involving the roll man, 26% of Fred's assists this year have been to Precious and Birch, not a single one of them a three. Khem has received 16 assists from Fred - and no more than 5 from anyone else. Same story for Precious - 16 from Fred, 8 from Barnes, no more than 4 from anyone else. Heck, if Precious could finish a lob to save his life those numbers may look even nicer (though Khem is basically automatic on feeds from Fred, 16 for 24 off Fred passes, so he's finding him in his spots at least).

When Precious learns how to finish lobs, layups, and put backs he is gonna be scary good.

[The Claw Reborn]

When Precious learns how to finish lobs, layups, and put backs he is gonna be scary good.

Probably has to be the same “timeline” as when Van Vleet has to learn properly how to do a textbook PnR and a more fluid lob to Precious

Hand and glove

[The Great One]

FVV > Wright.

[TrueTorontoFan]

He can try to be the man, but these things generally work themselves out. Keep the pressure off our rookies until they develop and hopefully it's obvious by next season that this is Scotties team

my thoughts exactly. It will not be "scotties" team until next season unless we trade guys.. but I don't see a trade that makes sense.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Over Lowry's final 7 seasons (so starting from his first all star season, leaving out his first two years here) with the Raptors, Lowry averaged a 31.4 AST% and 14.7 TOV%. He scored 18.4 points per game on a 52.6 eFG% and 23.3 USG%.

Fred is putting up a 27.5 AST% and 15.2 TOV% this year. He is scoring 19.4 PPG on a 52.9 eFG% and 22.9 USG%.

Now, yeah, I think Fred has some room for improvement with the assist/TO ratio, but not by a lot, to pretty much replicate Lowry's raw numbers.

I am extremely impressed Fred is even in the ballpark there, considering where he started from with his playmaking, and although he is still most lethal as an off ball threat (the same role the Raptors rather loved to slide Lowry into more and more later in his career here), he's become pretty good on that front.

Even specifically for involving the roll man, 26% of Fred's assists this year have been to Precious and Birch, not a single one of them a three. Khem has received 16 assists from Fred - and no more than 5 from anyone else. Same story for Precious - 16 from Fred, 8 from Barnes, no more than 4 from anyone else. Heck, if Precious could finish a lob to save his life those numbers may look even nicer (though Khem is basically automatic on feeds from Fred, 16 for 24 off Fred passes, so he's finding him in his spots at least).

Precious not being able to finish a lob is actually becoming concerning (for this season). It is something you work on in the off-season. Working on mid air balance and core strength, and feel and body awareness.

I hate to say it but with regards to fred I do partly agree with the claw reborn. That is to say that fred isn't the guy and does ball hog. Are these things that work themselves out? I am more patient than most and I am fine seeing if they do. I honestly think rushing Scottie to be the man is rushing to make dumb mistakes from an asset management and team building standpoint. I think you can put Scottie into higher usage roles throughout the season and watch it slowly creep up without having to trade away two of your top 4 players 20 games into this kids career. I think These are off season moves. Unless something that is a YOU CANT MISS THIS TRADE comes up.. Like let's be honest. Trading away picks is a bad move so no trade will be to move up and acquire talent at this point. A move to trade back ... how far back can we go? I mean can we really catch up to the likes of the real tanking crew? I personally don't think so.

I think its too early to make any decisions.

Fred for his short comings of slowing the offence down and looking off guys sometimes has improved this year and there have been times where he has kept us in games and afloat offensively.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Probably has to be the same “timeline” as when Van Vleet has to learn properly how to do a textbook PnR and a more fluid lob to Precious

Hand and glove

We didn't really run PnR with Kyle either even though Kyle was better at it.