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i read it the same way as primer which is why i made the comment about huerter (ie. atlanta had no one to guard perimeter players last year with hunter out so huerter got a lot of tough assignments, but just because he took on a lot of difficult matchups doesn't mean he was successful guarding them)
and it was kind of an unfair comment because i know he's not a bad defender, but he's also not exactly a shut down guy either and i just thought it was funny for this graphic to imply he was one of the three best 3 and D guys in the league when he's clearly not.
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Wonder whether cap guys like mars or Dan can answer…
What are the potential complications of not having worked out an extension yet with Fred, and why haven’t we?
Do we think they haven’t come to terms cause it would complicate a KD trade if Fred were to be included? Does he become untradeable for a while?
And what are the potential complications — like, it seemed as though he was maybe willing to take a pretty reasonable deal, (from early, pre-free agency reports.) …. If we wait too long, will his price go dramatically up?
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GOLDBLUM wrote: View PostWonder whether cap guys like mars or Dan can answer…
What are the potential complications of not having worked out an extension yet with Fred, and why haven’t we?
Do we think they haven’t come to terms cause it would complicate a KD trade if Fred were to be included? Does he become untradeable for a while?
And what are the potential complications — like, it seemed as though he was maybe willing to take a pretty reasonable deal, (from early, pre-free agency reports.) …. If we wait too long, will his price go dramatically up?
Fred's extension date is much later.. like right around when the season starts. So well after camp. There is no rush from the Raptor's side.
The length and size of the extension matters. The NBA has an extend and trade option.. but the new contract can only be 3 years in length and we can only give 5% raises each year. Fred will likely want a 4 year extension with 8% raises (ie, max contract but based on his current salary).
If Fred's camp wants the max, and we don't want to match that, then Fred still has his option for next season and can opt in or opt out and become a UFA. But we could trade him at any time through out the year.
If Fred wants and gets a 4 year extension, he cannot be traded for 6 months.
This is why Thad can be traded now. He signed an extension, but for only 2 years. So he can be extend and traded at any time.
So the Raptors my wait until the last possible minute to keep their options open in case the KD fires start smoking hot again or something. There is no hurry from either side right now though.
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planetmars wrote: View Post
I'm no genius here.. but from what I know..
Fred's extension date is much later.. like right around when the season starts. So well after camp. There is no rush from the Raptor's side.
The length and size of the extension matters. The NBA has an extend and trade option.. but the new contract can only be 3 years in length and we can only give 5% raises each year. Fred will likely want a 4 year extension with 8% raises (ie, max contract but based on his current salary).
If Fred's camp wants the max, and we don't want to match that, then Fred still has his option for next season and can opt in or opt out and become a UFA. But we could trade him at any time through out the year.
If Fred wants and gets a 4 year extension, he cannot be traded for 6 months.
This is why Thad can be traded now. He signed an extension, but for only 2 years. So he can be extend and traded at any time.
So the Raptors my wait until the last possible minute to keep their options open in case the KD fires start smoking hot again or something. There is no hurry from either side right now though.
Another consideration is if the Raps believe KD is going to stick until the deadline. In that case, if they wanted to have Fred extended to be used as a trade piece with term, they should try to get that done before we are 6 months prior to the deadline, which is coming up pretty quickly. That's also a consideration for the Nets - if they would want to extend Fred before FA, they would need to trade for him early enough that they can let the 6 months go by before July. That's a late December deadline but still, means a trade deadline deal with no extension in place leaves them dealing with UFA.
You are right that Fred will want the 4 years and 8% raises, but the bigger factor in the non-extend-and-trade extension is the raise allowed. He can get a 20% raise from the last year of this deal (this year assuming he declines the option) in a regular extension, but in an extend-and-trade that's limited to 5% and leaves him at essentially the same salary scale instead of moving up towards the max salary range.
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chris wrote: View Posti read it the same way as primer which is why i made the comment about huerter (ie. atlanta had no one to guard perimeter players last year with hunter out so huerter got a lot of tough assignments, but just because he took on a lot of difficult matchups doesn't mean he was successful guarding them)
and it was kind of an unfair comment because i know he's not a bad defender, but he's also not exactly a shut down guy either and i just thought it was funny for this graphic to imply he was one of the three best 3 and D guys in the league when he's clearly not.
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golden wrote: View Post
So without success, the graphic is close to meaningless. In the playoffs, the best scorers often hunt the worst defender, so that would be an extreme example of how limited this graphic is without context.
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Primer wrote: View Post
Why does it imply success? I can defend a player and do a bad job at it. There isn't another adjective to describe what I'm doing other than defend. When I played defense I am defending another basketball player.
If you do a bad job defending then you'll be at the bottom of that graph.
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Kagemusha wrote: View Post
Their placement determines their success as a 3 or shooter AND defender.
If you do a bad job defending then you'll be at the bottom of that graph.
But there's an inherent "the NBA coach assigning you to defend these guys probably doesn't have anyone better" factor in there, so it's not a terrible proxy for defensive ability.
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Kagemusha wrote: View Post
Their placement determines their success as a 3 or shooter AND defender.
If you do a bad job defending then you'll be at the bottom of that graph.
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Primer wrote: View Post
The x axis is the difficulty of their defensive matchups. Not how well they defended them. So if you get assigned to defend the best offensive player on the other team every night you will be all the way to the right side of the graph. If you get the easiest defensive assignment every night you will be all the way on the left side of the graph.
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golden wrote: View Post
The weakest defender could also be hunted by the best offensive player on the other team (not assigned by the coach), so that's another point of context in this data, i.e., completely the opposite of what it implies.
Keep in mind that guards and wings typically get the tougher assignment because the best offensive players are typically guards and wings.
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