Everything VanVleet

[LJ2]

Totally agree with the bold. It seems like some around here believe the players are the ones doing these negotiations. They're not. It's an agent and his 1 job is to get as much money as possible for his client (and therefore himself since he gets a cut). If they offered Fred $28M, his agent wisely turned that down because he knows they could get $34M if they wait, and $28M is the absolute floor. Players trust their agents to handle this stuff. Players play basketball they aren't agents.

But Primer, if Fred really loves being a Raptor the way he says he does then he should take take the pay cut for the betterment of the team. I mean the team would never trade a loyal player like him as long he remains loyal himself.

[golden]

It's rare for players to take cuts. He's going to get what he wants. Just like Pascal will get the super max when he's due for one.. and OG will want his lion share when he's a free agent.

Labeling Fred as a PG is a bit unfair though. The Raptors don't have a traditional PG. They have 4 starting caliber guys that can all handle the ball and initiate. No one is elite at it though. But they all bring different things. Unfortunately the biggest strength Fred brought to the table (high volume 3pt shooting) is missing, and so he's pretty much exposed.

Pascal had the same issues in the bubble when he couldn't get to the rim despite being 6'9. That was his best skill. Being able to get by his guy using finesse and agility and making plays at the rim. He's doing that in spades now.

The team has patience.. and will give Fred a lot of runway to get his act together. Just like they gave Pascal that same runway.

Oh, I totally know what Fred is gonna do: grab as much bag as he can get. Like most players would. And as a fellow entrepreneur.... I respect him for that. Just saying that yeah, it's great for him. Bravo, Fred! But it's potentially not so great for the team, unless Fred can get back to his all-star level and maintain that level with consistency.

Regarding PG, the term should be more like "advantage creator" and Fred is absolutely terrible at that. But he's elite at playing off other legit advantage creators, so he's more like SG, as many people have observed.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Fred could have signed for 4 years @ $114M = $28.5 AAV. When you're already at that income level, does an extra 1.5M/year really change your life, compared to giving the team salary cap certainty to help build a winner around you? If Fred doesn't snap out of his funk, then he might regret not taking that deal and running.

But of course, we all know that Nurse will give Fred an unlimited leash to play through his problems and/or Fred will go on the injured list for an extended time. Fred will eventually play better (even spectacularly) at some point.... and people will forget that he really isn't the driver of wins or floor raiser of role players, like Lowry, who he is most often compared to. Especially as the floor general, franchise PG and engine of the team. It's funny to hear guys like T-Rex complain about other players not stepping up to help Fred vs. Fred elevating others, like a true PG. But he will be paid like Lowry and make roster construction more difficult. That's the benefit of a combo guard having the unconditional support of a coach.

I mean it comes down to how many kids you have, how smart you are with your money and investments. Fred has invested heavily into his brand but I do not know about his other investments. Guys like Thad invested in other stuff beyond their brand so his brand is all about betting on yourself and all that. It made sense. He should have signed that deal and could have as you pointed out.Even if he snaps out will it be a big enough shift in the other direction? He would need to either go super nova or at the very least play the off ball role with extreme efficiency. He was definitely betting on a bigger payday but I don't see the raptors being happy with that and I dont see them also being happy paying gary 30 mill a year.



Fred is a shoot first guard, which is fine but he is the single worst driver in the NBA (literally driving to the hoop). So he can't create advantages in the same way as other guys.. he likes to shoot over guys who are way taller and longer ... but to do that you have to stretch the floor out to steph levels which.. frankly he has improved his shooting overall in terms of range but he isn't steph.. and steph is STILL taller which helps. Not saying steph is the tallest guy in the world but he is taller.


Again I would be trying to either knock on the door of orlando to see what they have since there are a ton of guards there. I would try to go for there better guys...

[Kagemusha]

Fred has already won betting on himself.
It's about time he stops gambling

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Interesting take..but not far from the truth..

https://youtu.be/u4PBizwPth8

[The Claw Reborn]

Interesting take..but not far from the truth..

https://youtu.be/u4PBizwPth8

Wow good video…

Like anything outside of this forum, I always liked to read the perspective of other fans, the comments section really tells us how diverse their opinions are and definitely they see the bigger picture.

[Primer]

But Primer, if Fred really loves being a Raptor the way he says he does then he should take take the pay cut for the betterment of the team. I mean the team would never trade a loyal player like him as long he remains loyal himself.

The agent wouldn't even present that as an option. 100% against the agents fiduciary duty to try and get Fred to accept a below market value contract. No players would want to work with the agent who gets guys below market deals.

This applies to everyone though. Did Masai accept a below market deal because he loves the Raptors? Fuck no he got a massive deal and seat on the board.

[A.I]

Didn't Lowry go through the same thing where his mechanic was off at one point during one of his slumps? Kind of interesting how it happens.

[golden]

The agent wouldn't even present that as an option. 100% against the agents fiduciary duty to try and get Fred to accept a below market value contract. No players would want to work with the agent who gets guys below market deals.

This applies to everyone though. Did Masai accept a below market deal because he loves the Raptors? Fuck no he got a massive deal and seat on the board.

Yeah, but there's no salary cap for Masai, so we don't have to dump Bobby Webster and Dan Tolzman and replace them with their G-League equivalents to keep the front office elite. MLSE does have a budget, yes, and Rogers Junior bitched about paying Masai, but still.... bad analogy.

Also, I don't think Masai got a real board seat. He got a faux title with no real extra boardroom power, if I recall correctly.

[slaw]

Wow good video…

Like anything outside of this forum, I always liked to read the perspective of other fans, the comments section really tells us how diverse their opinions are and definitely they see the bigger picture.

The point on FVV's shots was bang on and it was evident while you were watching the game.

The Siakam stuff is pretty cherry-picked, though. Pascal covers up a lot of this team's mistakes on defense and he carries them on offense, plus he's eaten up so really good defenders this season. Same with the Barnes stuff. Pretty sure we could find a couple dozen clips of Barnes getting blown by or missing assignments on D. It doesn't mean those guys aren't trying or aren't really good.

[Kagemusha]

Didn't Lowry go through the same thing where his mechanic was off at one point during one of his slumps? Kind of interesting how it happens.

Well, l want Fred to be concerned about it.
Come on.

[slaw]

Well, l want Fred to be concerned about it.
Come on.

Fred would never say something like that even if it was true. Demonstrates a lack of confidence.

[The Claw Reborn]

The point on FVV's shots was bang on and it was evident while you were watching the game.

The Siakam stuff is pretty cherry-picked, though. Pascal covers up a lot of this team's mistakes on defense and he carries them on offense, plus he's eaten up so really good defenders this season. Same with the Barnes stuff. Pretty sure we could find a couple dozen clips of Barnes getting blown by or missing assignments on D. It doesn't mean those guys aren't trying or aren't really good.

Pascal will have to work overtime against AD next game if he is assigned to guard him, good test of his endurance and stamina, consistently playing well offensively but on the other side has to guard a tough cover. AD can be lazy defensively and slow to get back on defense so Pascal can take advantage of that. Increase Pace is important and not playing in mud half court offense like the last game. Scottie is better suited in that kind of environment with ball moving around while everyone touches it.

They will catch the old legs of the Lakers on a 2nd game of a b2b as they are playing tonight against the Cavs.

VanVleet SHOULD have a good game I hope .

[G__Deane]

My biggest criticism of the Lowry era (pre Kawhi) was the defensive rebounder would stop and look for Kyle instead of start to run. It was always "where's Kyle?" pass and slow dribble dribble dribble handoff against a set half court defense. I clearly remember when Nurse finally said that whoever rebounded the ball should look to push the pace and cross half court with speed rather than just default to slow pace and burn haf the clock off every play.

Raps are doing the exact same thing with Fred now and he does exactly the same thing for the most part; slow dribble dribble dribble into the half court and set defenses. I want to see Pascal push the ball up, Barnes push the ball up, create some speed and early ball movement. and without seeing a stat, we seem to get out "run outs" by a wide margin. I want to see Dowtin and Banton push the ball up too!

Is this team that slow, such poor ball handlers?

[The Claw Reborn]

My biggest criticism of the Lowry era (pre Kawhi) was the defensive rebounder would stop and look for Kyle instead of start to run. It was always "where's Kyle?" pass and slow dribble dribble dribble handoff against a set half court defense. I clearly remember when Nurse finally said that whoever rebounded the ball should look to push the pace and cross half court with speed rather than just default to slow pace and burn haf the clock off every play.

Raps are doing the exact same thing with Fred now and he does exactly the same thing for the most part; slow dribble dribble dribble into the half court and set defenses. I want to see Pascal push the ball up, Barnes push the ball up, create some speed and early ball movement. and without seeing a stat, we seem to get out "run outs" by a wide margin. I want to see Dowtin and Banton push the ball up too!

Is this team that slow, such poor ball handlers?

If we can replicate this high octane dynamic basketball, my wish to Santa.