Everything VanVleet

[Yuri Gagarin]

a lot of insane stupid posts here. now we're complaining about nba players salaries?? lol.

would any of YOU take a paycut to improve your workplaces overall performance or to signify loyalty to your job? yah didnt think so.

we get it. these dudes make millions. blah blah blah. but whining about fred making so much money and either not willing to take a paycut 'for the team' or calling him greedy is just fucking stupid. grow the fuck up.

plus, freds been playing a LOT better this past stretch even when he isn't scoring, yet people still whining. yeesh.

the reality is fred is being paid like the 2nd best player on the team, and with the caveat of the usual ups and downs a player goes through, so far he's lived up to those expectations.

also, since when did high salaries mean expected wins? for every giannis level players, theres gonna be 30 other zach lavines/damian lillards/and now trae youngs all making near max money and not winning anything.

21 to 28.5 isnt a pay cut he declined a 33% raise for what in all likelihood will be less production.

that said ya bet on yourself go for it fred get all the money you deserve. The highest bid is what you deserve. I just hope someone else pays him what he wants and ill wish him the best.

And its funny how every post you accuse others of whining meanwhile you’re the biggest whiner of all

[The Claw Reborn]

21 to 28.5 isnt a pay cut he declined a 33% raise for what in all likelihood will be less production.

that said ya bet on yourself go for it fred get all the money you deserve. The highest bid is what you deserve. I just hope someone else pays him what he wants and ill wish him the best.

And its funny how every post you accuse others of whining meanwhile you’re the biggest whiner of all

Lol

[LJ2]

For your highest paid players, you can't always look at asset retention in a vacuum. If a player is making a significant amount of the cap, then there is significant pressure on management and the coach to tilt the system & roles towards the leveraging that player's strengths and minimizing his weaknesses to maximize their impact... potentially at the expense of developing other players, or even roster selection. Even advanced/impact stats don't always capture this, i.e., if certain players are being put in better positions to succeed than others from the get-go.

Masai has said in the past that your highest paid players have to be your best players. That's kind of an obvious statement, but it's tough to demote a guy to a lesser role if you realize later that you made a mistake in over-paying him for a role that's beyond his true capabilities. Or you realize his lesser capabilities can be filled with a lower salaried player.

The market will dictate what Fred is worth. Raps aren't going to do him any favors by paying him more than that to retain his services. Good thing is that Fred's contract being set by the market will mean other teams won't view it as a huge hinderance so trades should remain a possibility unless he completely falls off or is injured. So if Masai and company decide to keep him on board then you have to believe they truly feel that maximizing what he does well and minimizing what he doesn't is worth it over any number of other players currently on the roster or that they could acquire in a Fred trade. I trust the organization that is worth a billion dollars has done their homework on this.

Zero issues on fans questioning those decisions. That's what makes these conversations fun.

[G__Deane]

a lot of insane stupid posts here. now we're complaining about nba players salaries?? lol.

would any of YOU take a paycut to improve your workplaces overall performance or to signify loyalty to your job? yah didnt think so.

I see you've never owned a business lol
Have you ever worked for zero or a huge loss (seed investment) in order to build something of long term significance and employ others?

Yah didn't think so.

Guys can take all they can, fill the bag but please don't talk about "taking care of their famillies" with $60M already banked. Just tell the truth; I want as much as I can possibly bleed from this organization and they can afford it.

[golden]

I see you've never owned a business lol
Have you ever worked for zero or a huge loss (seed investment) in order to build something of long term significance and employ others?

Yah didn't think so.

Guys can take all they can, fill the bag but please don't talk about "taking care of their famillies" with $60M already banked. Just tell the truth; I want as much as I can possibly bleed from this organization and they can afford it.

"All I care about is winning championships".... is another great PR line.

[Dvdvideo]

I think it's frankly ridiculous and perilous to talk about Fred and most other players in terms of "rampant greed."

Fred grew up in one of the poorest and most violent places in America. Where the wealth gap is as high or higher than anywhere on the continent.

Sure, Fred wants to get "the bag" and have a big house and a fancy car. But I think we can stop with the "how many mansions does Fred need?" talk. This is a man who does a ton of charity work. Who sees the inequity in the communities around him. And ultimately Fred is, himself, a business. This isn't about him riding a banana boat with with CP and Carmelo for the rest of his days in the bahamas, making it rain. This is about entrepreneurship. This is about generational wealth. Taking care of his family and others around him for generations to come. It's not about how many Maserati's he can fit in his own personal airplane hanger.

And ultimately, he should be paid what he's worth -- in the NBA. ... That's a vastly different system of judgement of worth than most of us here are used to, absolutely. He's better and been better than a lot of players out there who are making more than he is. Or at least he certainly thinks he is. And that's his prerogative. If you don't like it, stop participating in these capitalist organizations. Otherwise, welcome to the NBA, and your enjoyment of it.

Anyway, I bristle at the lack of awareness of what we're really talking about here. Fred is a basketball player, a business, a philanthropist -- and a human being with the opportunity to redistribute wealth as he would see fit, in a world that's got an egregious wealth-distribution problem.

Get off the high horse, please bring something more than this. What percentage of his wealth does Fred actually contribute to charity? 1%? 10%? Honestly you make it sound like saint Fred donates 75% of his wage to charity. Do you even know?
He's more than taken care of for generations already, he's made 80 million dollars. If he can't support his family and extended family on that kind of money then he sucks at money management. (even with charity work)
He's set to make another 100 million, it was guaranteed. If you want to throw the whole "take care of my family" card out there, wouldn't it have been safer to take the deal than risk an injury that might end your career and never make another dime? Even as a pure business person this is a large risk.

Anyway, I bristle at your lack of awareness here.

[Limited Upside]

Get off the high horse, please bring something more than this. What percentage of his wealth does Fred actually contribute to charity? 1%? 10%? Honestly you make it sound like saint Fred donates 75% of his wage to charity. Do you even know?
He's more than taken care of for generations already, he's made 80 million dollars. If he can't support his family and extended family on that kind of money then he sucks at money management. (even with charity work)
He's set to make another 100 million, it was guaranteed. If you want to throw the whole "take care of my family" card out there, wouldn't it have been safer to take the deal than risk an injury that might end your career and never make another dime? Even as a pure business person this is a large risk.

Anyway, I bristle at your lack of awareness here.

I trust everyone rankled by the concept of someone trying to maximize their earning power in the name of “greed” is also blowing up daily over Elon Musks wealth, or Warren Buffett or name your favourite billionaire.

don’t hate the man for getting what the market will pay. And don’t forget, stories were that he took a team friendly deal the last time, could have got more elsewhere.

[MixxAOR]

I trust everyone rankled by the concept of someone trying to maximize their earning power in the name of “greed” is also blowing up daily over Elon Musks wealth, or Warren Buffett or name your favourite billionaire.

don’t hate the man for getting what the market will pay. And don’t forget, stories were that he took a team friendly deal the last time, could have got more elsewhere.

You don't have to go that far. Team owners build arenas using taxpayers money and then charge insane ticket prices.

[Yuri Gagarin]

I trust everyone rankled by the concept of someone trying to maximize their earning power in the name of “greed” is also blowing up daily over Elon Musks wealth, or Warren Buffett or name your favourite billionaire.

don’t hate the man for getting what the market will pay. And don’t forget, stories were that he took a team friendly deal the last time, could have got more elsewhere.

We dont care how much he gets we just want him to get it from elsewhere. How do you know it was a team friendly deal? It seemed only Knicks were interested at the time and offered about the same or maybe even less.

[G__Deane]

I trust everyone rankled by the concept of someone trying to maximize their earning power in the name of “greed” is also blowing up daily over Elon Musks wealth, or Warren Buffett or name your favourite billionaire.

don’t hate the man for getting what the market will pay. And don’t forget, stories were that he took a team friendly deal the last time, could have got more elsewhere.

There was a time not too long ago when poeple like Buffett and Gates actively tried to avoid being included on billionnaire lists. I remember Bezos making the list and being kind of embarassed. Then it somehow became a financial arms race and Gates, Ellison and Buffett destroyed the $10B mark due to the stock market and never looked back

Since you asked, yes being a multi multi billionaire should be embarassing, guys have 40,000 millions laying around on paper when it could be doing more in real life and never touch the principle. yeah yeah yeah they give away a lot of money and do some good things and gain tax advantages through their trusts, blah blah blah, no one needs 30, 40B and growing to their names. Welcome to capitalism, no better alternative to be found yet.

Fill your boots FVV, I personally just hope it's not here.

[G__Deane]

You don't have to go that far. Team owners build arenas using taxpayers money and then charge insane ticket prices.

Good point.
Now, about those banks, grocers, oil and cell companies

[planetmars]

The NBA needs arbitration like the MLB has. Market should not dictate value directly. Especially in a cap system. If Fred is looking at Herro's contract as a barometer it's about right. Herro is basically an elite 6th man that can play well in the playoffs and be one of the leaders of his team. He's young so you pay for potential. For vets you pay for what they've done - and despite playing poorly this year he is coming off an all-star appearance. Something Herro will likely never make (not with Jimmy or Bam there).

Herro is making about 20% of the cap and that will go down when the cap goes up. I always stood by the 25% of the cap line for Fred. If he wants Herro money it's not so bad. I think the kicker will be term. For both Klutch/Fred and Raptors/Masai.

Fred will want to pounce again when the cap goes up. Raptors will want some rope like they've been doing recently with everyone. Even Pascal got a 4 year deal instead of a 5 year one.

I think Fred gets a 3 year deal (2+1 with player option again). It will go $28M, $32M, $34M (AAV of $31.3M or $94M/3). The $28M is about 21% of the cap ($134M next year). A little more than his max extension.

Herro's contract in comparison goes $27M, $29M, $31M, $33M (no options, but $10M potential bonuses - has to make all-nba, mvp or dpoy to get some of that).

[Puffer]

I think it's frankly ridiculous and perilous to talk about Fred and most other players in terms of "rampant greed."

Fred grew up in one of the poorest and most violent places in America. Where the wealth gap is as high or higher than anywhere on the continent.

Sure, Fred wants to get "the bag" and have a big house and a fancy car. But I think we can stop with the "how many mansions does Fred need?" talk. This is a man who does a ton of charity work. Who sees the inequity in the communities around him. And ultimately Fred is, himself, a business. This isn't about him riding a banana boat with with CP and Carmelo for the rest of his days in the bahamas, making it rain. This is about entrepreneurship. This is about generational wealth. Taking care of his family and others around him for generations to come. It's not about how many Maserati's he can fit in his own personal airplane hanger.

And ultimately, he should be paid what he's worth -- in the NBA. ... That's a vastly different system of judgement of worth than most of us here are used to, absolutely. He's better and been better than a lot of players out there who are making more than he is. Or at least he certainly thinks he is. And that's his prerogative. If you don't like it, stop participating in these capitalist organizations. Otherwise, welcome to the NBA, and your enjoyment of it.

Anyway, I bristle at the lack of awareness of what we're really talking about here. Fred is a basketball player, a business, a philanthropist -- and a human being with the opportunity to redistribute wealth as he would see fit, in a world that's got an egregious wealth-distribution problem.

Pretty much says it all right there Goldy. It's easy for folks to give away somebody else's money. To call it greed. Fred is doing exactly what is has every right to do. You can't judge people by how much money they leave on the table. IT'S THEIR MONEY. If you want to control how Fred spends his money get into politics and aim at a job as the finance minister.

[Dvdvideo]

I trust everyone rankled by the concept of someone trying to maximize their earning power in the name of “greed” is also blowing up daily over Elon Musks wealth, or Warren Buffett or name your favourite billionaire.

don’t hate the man for getting what the market will pay. And don’t forget, stories were that he took a team friendly deal the last time, could have got more elsewhere.

You guys can't have it both ways, it's either "just a business" or its not. Why bring in the charity part then? And what about his family? Friends? Teammates? And I don't hate Fred, I actually quite like him. Even want him to stay if he can stay in the right role. But there some things that don't match up.

Love it in Toronto, don't want to leave, but will for a price. (so not really that true........)
Want to get paid, but won't accept a guaranteed contract, willing to roll the dice on my health.
I don't know too many businesses that would deny a guaranteed 117 Million dollar contract (regardless of performance of the task) for the 90% chance at a 130-140 million dollar one down the road. And he has his family to think about entrenched in the Toronto community. So clearly there is a lot more to it than "he's just a business" And clearly he has a stomach for more risk than most companies. Personally I think not signing this off season with that offer means he doesn't too much if he ends up leaving, but that's just me. The money is more important, even with the large risk involved.

And for the record, I never once said anything about how somebody would spend their money, it's GOLDBLUM who brought up how FVV deals with his, not me.

[golden]

The only thing fans should care about is if re-signing Fred at the value he wants helps or hinders building a championship team from a future cap or trade asset standpoint, and also if the role/system he needs to justify that salary helps or hinders the development of other players or limits our style(s) of play.

If Fred truly “cares only about winning championships” like he says he does, then his salary and ability will have a massive impact on all of the above. That’s fair game to critique. All the other personal attack stuff is out of bounds, IMO.