Everything VanVleet

[TrueTorontoFan]

Sorry dude but you have to pick a side….either you trade him OR retain him by paying him whatever your opinion is decent which you already clearly stated above … a deal like Herro or Poole.

you can’t have both ways and play safe in this kind of discussion

ship him off

[planetmars]

welll I would pick scottie and pascal and see what is out there for the rest but lean towards OG staying unless he can't see it working.

Pascal has only 1 year left on his deal and then becomes a UFA. Is he sticking around if he has to play with a bunch of kids? We are very close to being like the Pistons and Hornets.

[The Claw Reborn]

I don't care if Fred stays or not.. but he's eying Herro or Poole's deals which are decent.. about 20% of the cap. If his defense continues to decline that's not a deal breaker. I mean again Herro and Poole got paid.

If you think Fred is going to go back to playing like he forgot how to shoot then its a bad deal. But if he keeps playing like he has then that's the right value for him. And this team needs shooters. Especially if we want Scottie to be the focal of this team. Fred can do that.

If we move on from Fred then his skillset will need to be replaced. We don't have a natural guy to replace his skills on this team. Flynn isn't that guy. For Pascal we have Scottie. For OG we have Precious.

Sorry dude but you have to pick a side….either you trade him OR retain him by paying him whatever your opinion is decent which you already clearly stated above … a deal like Herro or Poole.

you can’t have both ways and play safe in this kind of discussion

Pick a side? It's not an election. I want the Raptors to be better. If we can get a great deal than yeah trade him. If we get nothing significant you keep him and work to make a trade in a year or two when he's got more value.

But the value has to be right in a trade. I personally don't think Fred walks in free agency as his only real options would be a team like Orlando or San Antonio.. and he's going to want to go to a winning situation.

So I'd gamble that he sticks around. But if we only get a poo poo platter like Saric and Shamet with a 2nd rounder, then forget it.

That is just bad and very risky business then…you cannot invest a good chunk of your reserve on an asset that you attached a But and an If….trade it before it loses its value completely.

law of diminishing return: after a certain point, an asset cannot continue to increase its value if other variables remain at a constant.

Obviously Masai ain’t that stupid trading him for Saric/ Shamet and a second rounder but I am confident, he will do the prudent thing to not rescind the initial offer of $114 million But make a higher offer of $130 million in the offseason just to please fans like you.

[slaw]

It's extremely relevant to future roster construction/cap flexibility/winning if the team is paying $130-140M for a mini-sized combo guard, whose greatest value is as an off-ball shooter who needs better playmakers to get him open shots.... or if the team is paying for a true point guard who makes a lot of other guys more valuable and he can also shoot. That's not even taking into account the defensive slippage.

Keep in mind that Herro and Poole didn’t get those contracts to stand around and shoot threes. They got those contracts to be the primary offensive option as the vets on those teams get older (Butler and Curry). So unless you think FVV is the primary guy moving forward, you ain’t giving him that money.

[planetmars]

That is just bad and very risky business then…you cannot invest a good chunk of your reserve on an asset that you attached a But and an If….trade it before it loses its value completely.

law of diminishing return: after a certain point, an asset cannot continue to increase its value if other variables remain at a constant.

Obviously Masai ain’t that stupid trading him for Saric/ Shamet and a second rounder but I am confident, he will do the prudent thing to not rescind the initial offer of $114 million But make a higher offer of $130 million in the offseason just to please fans like you.

I'm not understanding the risk. That he walks and we get nothing or that his contract becomes a noose? Because I think Masai would keep him if he gets a bad deal otherwise. And I think he talks to Fred's camp now like he did with Lowry's to see what the plan is. If Fred is planning to leave then we work out trades to destinations of his choice. It's like any other situation. And I don't think his next deal will be a noose. He's a good player that many teams will want.

He would be more valuable on a long term deal over as an expiring. Teams would be more willing to trade for guys on multiple year deals. That's why OG appears to be in demand more than someone like Trent or Fred. And why would his value diminish. It was at an all time low this year, and he still has suitors at the deadline.

What I think guys like you want is for him to be traded for anything just to get him off the team. I'm not at all believing in that. Fred has value around the NBA. We should get something good for him. And if we can't then we keep him. And if anything work out a S&T deal in the off season if it comes to that.

[Hotshot]

lol twitter number 1 trending topic in Canada today was "RIP Fred" referred to Canadian Groundhog Fred La Mormotte who died before predicting the sping weather but for Raptor fans that tweet hit different.

[golden]

Keep in mind that Herro and Poole didn’t get those contracts to stand around and shoot threes. They got those contracts to be the primary offensive option as the vets on those teams get older (Butler and Curry). So unless you think FVV is the primary guy moving forward, you ain’t giving him that money.

I think Masai and Bobby aren’t sure about Fred at that price either. That might be why we heard the “re-sign Gary for cheap” chatter uncharacteristically leaked to Grange recently.

Poole and Herro are also younger than Fred, so presumably betting on upside.

Decisions, decisions…

[The Claw Reborn]

I'm not understanding the risk. That he walks and we get nothing or that his contract becomes a noose? Because I think Masai would keep him if he gets a bad deal otherwise. And I think he talks to Fred's camp now like he did with Lowry's to see what the plan is. If Fred is planning to leave then we work out trades to destinations of his choice. It's like any other situation. And I don't think his next deal will be a noose. He's a good player that many teams will want.

He would be more valuable on a long term deal over as an expiring. Teams would be more willing to trade for guys on multiple year deals. That's why OG appears to be in demand more than someone like Trent or Fred. And why would his value diminish. It was at an all time low this year, and he still has suitors at the deadline.

What I think guys like you want is for him to be traded for anything just to get him off the team. I'm not at all believing in that. Fred has value around the NBA. We should get something good for him. And if we can't then we keep him. And if anything work out a S&T deal in the off season if it comes to that.

Meh it’s a simple choice for you

A. Trade before the deadline

B. Keep him and pay him what he wants - $130 million

[Dvdvideo]

I don't care if Fred stays or not.. but he's eying Herro or Poole's deals which are decent.. about 20% of the cap. If his defense continues to decline that's not a deal breaker. I mean again Herro and Poole got paid.

If you think Fred is going to go back to playing like he forgot how to shoot then its a bad deal. But if he keeps playing like he has then that's the right value for him. And this team needs shooters. Especially if we want Scottie to be the focal of this team. Fred can do that.

If we move on from Fred then his skillset will need to be replaced. We don't have a natural guy to replace his skills on this team. Flynn isn't that guy. For Pascal we have Scottie. For OG we have Precious.

This is mostly right though......Fred on top of his game = an asset for the team. But oy if he defers to Scottie as primary ball handler. If he goes back to poor shooting and no fire on defense, then hard no.

Which fred will we get?

[Primer]

Pascal has only 1 year left on his deal and then becomes a UFA. Is he sticking around if he has to play with a bunch of kids? We are very close to being like the Pistons and Hornets.

We give Pascal a max extension in the offseason and he'll say yes.

The moves we're making are to get better next season. I doubt Pascal will be upset about playing without Fred.

[grindhouse]

fred is going to the suns

[Bonus Jonas]

Many can shoot but Fred is far more than a role player. He's got a 118 ORTG with a 22.8% USG. That's pretty good. And he's had a really tough year as well. Fred can also create his own 3pt shot. Most great 3pt shooters need someone to create it for them.

It's not about bad deals.. its about the market. 20% of the cap is great for what he provides at his age. If we're talking 25% or more than its a bad deal.. but that's not what Herro or Poole got either.

The argument is we don’t need our shooters creating the 3’s for themselves. We want the ball in Scottie and Pascal’s hands.

He clashes with that

[planetmars]

Meh it’s a simple choice for you

A. Trade before the deadline

B. Keep him and pay him what he wants - $130 million

What's the minimum you would get in a trade for Fred to be okay with him leaving versus bringing him in for that fictional $130M contract? For me I would want at least one unprotected first round pick, and a young prospect, plus cap relief (so an expiring contract).

If we can get that then it's door #1. If not, then it's door #2 and we check back again next year.

[planetmars]

The argument is we don’t need our shooters creating the 3’s for themselves. We want the ball in Scottie and Pascal’s hands.

He clashes with that

Fred only has a 22% usage. He's 3rd on the team in catch and shoot field goal attempts (and that's not just taking 3's). The ball is mostly in Pascal's hands.. and that's the rub. It's Pascal that's in the way of Scottie not Fred.

[LJ2]

What's the minimum you would get in a trade for Fred to be okay with him leaving versus bringing him in for that fictional $130M contract? For me I would want at least one unprotected first round pick, and a young prospect, plus cap relief (so an expiring contract).

If we can get that then it's door #1. If not, then it's door #2 and we check back again next year.

What did we receive in the Lowry trade? One young player in Precious and Dragic on an an expirinng?