Everything VanVleet

[Bonus Jonas]

Fred only has a 22% usage. He's 3rd on the team in catch and shoot field goal attempts (and that's not just taking 3's). The ball is mostly in Pascal's hands.. and that's the rub. It's Pascal that's in the way of Scottie not Fred.

Right but that can probably be replaced at a much cheaper rate. Fred provides a lot, but he’s probably the most replaceable member of the main 5 if we want to cut costs.

I certainly wouldn’t wanna pay 130m to someone who I’d only want as third option at best.

And I don’t believe in the Siakam/Barnes clashing thing tbh. I think if you have shooters around them and let them run a 2 man game it could be a lethal offence.

Especially if Precious’ shooting isn’t just a hot patch.

[planetmars]

Right but that can probably be replaced at a much cheaper rate. Fred provides a lot, but he’s probably the most replaceable member of the main 5 if we want to cut costs.

I certainly wouldn’t wanna pay 130m to someone who I’d only want as third option at best.

And I don’t believe in the Siakam/Barnes clashing thing tbh. I think if you have shooters around them and let them run a 2 man game it could be a lethal offence.

Especially if Precious’ shooting isn’t just a hot patch.

I don't know if you can find a cheaper replacement though. I think Gary is the most replaceable since he doesn't pass or rebound. And 20% of the cap for a 3rd option is exactly okay. It's again what Herro and Poole are making and they have other guys around them making far more.

Siakam and Barnes are two guys.. so you are asking for 3 shooters including the center. Where are we finding a center that can be lethal shooter? Who's the PG to replace Fred who can shoot as well? It's so much easier said than done.

[planetmars]

You started with a bold conviction then followed it with a contingency but went back to where you are at.

thanks.

The world isn't in black and white.. sorry to say.

Basically if Fred is brought back.. and given about 20-21% of the cap on his next deal I'll be totally fine with it.

[The Claw Reborn]

I don't know if you can find a cheaper replacement though. I think Gary is the most replaceable since he doesn't pass or rebound. And 20% of the cap for a 3rd option is exactly okay. It's again what Herro and Poole are making and they have other guys around them making far more.

Siakam and Barnes are two guys.. so you are asking for 3 shooters including the center. Where are we finding a center that can be lethal shooter? Who's the PG to replace Fred who can shoot as well? It's so much easier said than done.

The world isn't in black and white.. sorry to say.

Basically if Fred is brought back.. and given about 20-21% of the cap on his next deal I'll be totally fine with it.

All road lead to Gary and Siakam getting traded and keep VanVleet.

Its pretty clear to me where you stand….nothing gray about it.

You don’t have to convince me otherwise.

thanks

[planetmars]

All road lead to Gary and Siakam getting traded and keep VanVleet.

Its pretty clear to me where you stand….nothing gray about it.

You don’t have to convince me otherwise.

thanks

Keep Gary because he's a shooter. Scottie needs shooters around him. Gary fits the profile. But he's still the most replaceable on this team.

[The Claw Reborn]

Keep Gary because he's a shooter. Scottie needs shooters around him. Gary fits the profile. But he's still the most replaceable on this team.

Haha…you will get major points for that from his haters, imagine his No.1 hater…probably getting a hard on by now LOL.

You already made it clear right off the bat that you were not a fan of him….the above AAV gave you a bad taste when Masai and Bobby signed him a couple of seasons ago.

Just by the no. Of words you defending VanVleet vs. a one liner for Trent

We both agree to disagree so not much to discuss further

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Keep Gary because he's a shooter. Scottie needs shooters around him. Gary fits the profile. But he's still the most replaceable on this team.

2 Expensive for just shooter. 25 million, no thank u.
He don't do anything else, doesn't rebound, doesn't pass, defense is not great, he gambles.
For that type of money u can get 3 complementary shooter guys that don't need 20 shots, they need better bench that can support Scottie..Gary is chucker, u don't need those kind of guys, his been better..but I can't c him as a roll player.

[Bonus Jonas]

I don't know if you can find a cheaper replacement though. I think Gary is the most replaceable since he doesn't pass or rebound. And 20% of the cap for a 3rd option is exactly okay. It's again what Herro and Poole are making and they have other guys around them making far more.

Siakam and Barnes are two guys.. so you are asking for 3 shooters including the center. Where are we finding a center that can be lethal shooter? Who's the PG to replace Fred who can shoot as well? It's so much easier said than done.

Don’t think we need a true PG like that. NBA has moved on to point forwards. Look at most of the best teams and you’ll see their top usage guys almost exclusively in that 6’6-6’9 range.

The center shooting 3’s isn’t essential, just a bit of range out to the free throw line. Let’s not forget Siakam is not a bad 3 point shooter at all and certainly spreads the floor with his midrange at the least. Barnes is really the only non shooter in an ideal world, and even there I’m sure we’ll see improvement.

Also, Herro and Poole contract is too much for Fred in my opinion. Those guys are young and expected to be “heirs” to the main guys on their teams. Fred is mid prime and isn’t getting any better. He is what he is whereas they still have some (even if marginal) room for growth.

And it’s more than 20% of the cap. The rumoured 130m he’s asking for is close to 25%. With Siakam at 30%?, Gary probably clocking in at at least 15 and OG needing a new deal soon, that 25% could become a huge burden.

[planetmars]

Haha…you will get major points for that from his haters, imagine his No.1 hater…probably getting a hard on by now LOL.

You already made it clear right off the bat that you were not a fan of him….the above AAV gave you a bad taste when Masai and Bobby signed him a couple of seasons ago.

Just by the no. Of words you defending VanVleet vs. a one liner for Trent

We both agree to disagree so not much to discuss further

Gary is a good 3pt shooter that spaces the floor. We need his skillset. We need a lot of his skillset. This team lacks shooting and rim protection. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

Scottie and Pascal can't shoot and can't space the floor for each other. They both need the ball in their hands. Fred and Gary are our best shooters. If you trade both are we replacing them with shooters? If we are then who?

So yeah keep Gary. But again he shoots.. so do a lot of guys in the league. Gary doesn't pass, or rebound or defend that well. But he has something we desperately need. So yeah keep him.

But we need more Gary's. Not less. Scottie needs shooters like Giannis got shooters.

As for Gary's contract.. I hated the player option and still do. He makes as much as Norm.. so why trade him for Norm? Norm can shoot too. Norm doesn't have upside, but Gary doesn't really either despite his age. He still just likes to shoot. He doesn't really do much else.

[Bonus Jonas]

If you can keep Fred for around 22-25m I’d be okay with it but if he’s expecting anywhere near 30 (which is the vibe we’ve been getting) I’m trading him for the best package available now.

[golden]

If you can keep Fred for around 22-25m I’d be okay with it but if he’s expecting anywhere near 30 (which is the vibe we’ve been getting) I’m trading him for the best package available now.

22-25M? lol. Fred wouldn't even sign the 28.5M contract extension. He publicly said that he outplayed that contract.

[The Claw Reborn]

Gary is a good 3pt shooter that spaces the floor. We need his skillset. We need a lot of his skillset. This team lacks shooting and rim protection. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

Scottie and Pascal can't shoot and can't space the floor for each other. They both need the ball in their hands. Fred and Gary are our best shooters. If you trade both are we replacing them with shooters? If we are then who?

So yeah keep Gary. But again he shoots.. so do a lot of guys in the league. Gary doesn't pass, or rebound or defend that well. But he has something we desperately need. So yeah keep him.

But we need more Gary's. Not less. Scottie needs shooters like Giannis got shooters.

As for Gary's contract.. I hated the player option and still do. He makes as much as Norm.. so why trade him for Norm? Norm can shoot too. Norm doesn't have upside, but Gary doesn't really either despite his age. He still just likes to shoot. He doesn't really do much else.

You don’t have to spell for me what Gary can bring to this team.

I digress a bit but so far, GTJ with almost 58%TS, way better than any of Precious/ Scottie/ OG/ Pascal and VanVleet.

but the rumors out there clearly tell us that VanVleet would give us a better return than Trent.

[Bonus Jonas]

22-25M? lol. Fred wouldn't even sign the 28.5M contract extension. He publicly said that he outplayed that contract.

Hence why I want him traded for the best package possible

Hoping it ends up being with the Pelicans as I think they have the best pieces and plenty of picks. And they’re in a spot where they could use him both now and long term as a capped out team picking up a guy with bird rights.

[slaw]

22-25M? lol. Fred wouldn't even sign the 28.5M contract extension. He publicly said that he outplayed that contract.

I will be very curious as to what his market is if he tests FA. Last time there was no real interest and he signed with Toronto straightaway. I'm not sure what has changed? Guess we will find out.

[planetmars]

Don’t think we need a true PG like that. NBA has moved on to point forwards. Look at most of the best teams and you’ll see their top usage guys almost exclusively in that 6’6-6’9 range.

The center shooting 3’s isn’t essential, just a bit of range out to the free throw line. Let’s not forget Siakam is not a bad 3 point shooter at all and certainly spreads the floor with his midrange at the least. Barnes is really the only non shooter in an ideal world, and even there I’m sure we’ll see improvement.

Also, Herro and Poole contract is too much for Fred in my opinion. Those guys are young and expected to be “heirs” to the main guys on their teams. Fred is mid prime and isn’t getting any better. He is what he is whereas they still have some (even if marginal) room for growth.

And it’s more than 20% of the cap. The rumoured 130m he’s asking for is close to 25%. With Siakam at 30%?, Gary probably clocking in at at least 15 and OG needing a new deal soon, that 25% could become a huge burden.

We don't need a true PG but we need ball handlers. Scottie is still not that good at handling the ball. Have a quick guard cover him and he's going to lose it or get rattled. We need options there. Pascal is not spacing the floor. Nobody is really covering him outside the paint. He gets usually wide open looks and is a below average shooter. He can make mid range shots but he's shooting where Barnes likes to shoot too. We have had many games where we go on 4-5 minute stretches where we cannot get a field goal.. and that's with both Scottie and Pascal on the court. You can't have that happen in the NBA. You need real spacers so there is more room in the paint for Scottie to work in. Ideally you have Scottie with 4 shooters. Just like with Giannis and the Bucks.

I did the math.. $130M on a 4 year deal would be 24% of the cap. I would want him at 20-21% of the cap, and I think we could get it down to that. If not then yeah I'm okay with sending him out too. I do know the cap will rise though. So 24% of the cap in 2023-2024, could end up being 20-21% in later years.