Legacy League match 17 e_wheazy vs DogeLover1234

[Axel]

The legacy league was created to pit teams drafted by fellow RR members against each other and allow the general RR populous to vote on who would win this winner take all, single elimination game if all players were at their peak performance.

Each team drafted a 10 man roster. Each team provided a gameplan justification as to why they believe they should get your vote. Each team is allowed 1 post for "in game adjustments." The role of RR community is simple, vote for who you believe should win. Post justification if you want (encouraged) and weigh the pros and cons for all to see, but ultimately, your vote decides who will win this tournament of legends.

e_wheazy vs Dogelover

e_wheazhy Starting Lineup (Prime Stats):

PG: Oscar Robertson - 6-5, 205 lbs, Averaged a triple double
30.8 PTS, 80.3% FT, 12.5 REB, 11.4 AST, 48% FG

SG: Grant Hill - 6-8, 225 lbs, 7x All Star, 5x All NBAer
21.4 PTS, 9 REB, 7.3 AST, 1.8 STL, 30.3% 3FG, 14.6 WS, 114 ORTG, 100 DRTG, 8.0 BPM

SF: Paul George - 6-9, 220lbs, 6-11.5 wingspan, 3X All Star, 3x All NBA Defensive Teamer
23.1 PTS, 7.0 REB, 4.1 AST, 1.9 STL, 37.1 3FG, 107 ORTG, 97 DRTG, 10 WS, 6.4 DWS

PF: Draymond Green - 6-7, 230lbs, 7-1 Wingspan, NBA Champ, 2x All NBA Defender
9.5 REB, 7.4 AST, 1.5 STL, 1.4 BLKS, 38.8 3FG, 115 ORTG, 97 DRTG, 11.1 WS

C: Kevin Garnett - 6-11, 240lbs, 7-6 wingspan12x All NBA Defensive Teamer, DPOY,
23.0 PTS, 13.9 REB, 6.0 AST, 1.4 STL, 2.2 BLKS, 31.9% 3FG, 98 DRTG, 113 ORTG, 18.3 WS, 9.7 BPM

Bench:

John Wall - 6-4, 200lbs, 6-9 wingspan, 3x All Star, All NBA Defender
19.8 PTS, 10.2 AST, 4.9 REB,1.9 STL, 35.1% 3P

Anthony Davis - 6-10, 255lbs, 7-6 wingspan, 3x All Star, All-NBA first team, 2x NBA Blocks Leader, All-NBA Defender
24.4 PTS, 10.2 REB, 2.2 AST, 1.5 STL, 2.9 BLKS, 32.4% 3FG, 122 ORTG, 100 DRTG, 14.0 WS

Andre Iguodala - 6-6, 215lbs, 6-11 wingspan, NBA Champ, Finals MVP, 2x All-NBA Defender, All Star
12.4 PTS, 6.1 REB, 5.5 AST, 1.7 STL, 39.4% 3FG, 108 ORTG, 98 DRTG, 7.3 WS

Bob Lanier - 6-11, 250lbs, 8x All Star
24 PTS, 13.3 REB, 4.6 AST, 1.4 STL, 3.0 BLKS 51% FG, 108 ORTG, 88 DRTG (YES, 88), 14.4 WS

James Harden, 6-5, 220lbs, 6-11 wingspan, 4x All Star, 2x All NBAer
29 PTS, 6.1 REB, 7.5 AST, 1.7 STL, 37.5% 3FG, 118 ORTG, 103 DRTG, 16.4 WS

e_wheazy gameplan
I like Doge's team but they're clearly over matched. We can run 1/4 PnRs all day, switching to 4/1 makes them even deadlier. Wade means we can collapse the D and close off lanes for Nash to work in. Russell is the only solid defender, and our elite shooting bigs will minimize his rim protection, drawing him out. With poor perimeter D, we'll exploit space inside after blowing by their guards. Ballhandlers at all positions allow us to run endless combinations of PnRs, exploiting various mismatches.

Nash gets the Curry treatment, with strong, physical defenders getting into him. Dirk will be checked by either AD or Dray, both have length and quickness to guard him. Our bigs are long and quick, able to guard Dirk on the perimeter as well as inside. Length of KG/AD and Lanier does a solid job bothering Russell.

HE CAN'T GUARD ME!

Dogelover assumed Lineup:
Steve Nash: MVP, All NBA first team, Led league in Assists (2005-2006)
Dwayne Wade: NBA Champion, All-NBA(2nd), All Defense(2nd), Finals MVP (in prime seasons)
Paul Pierce: Finals MVP, 39% 3pt%, Great Defender, Shot maker
Dirk Nowitzki: Greatest Shooting big ever, NBA Champ, Finals MVP
Bill Russell: Greatest Big Defender All Time, 11x Champion in 13 seasons, MVP

Reserves:
Maurice Cheeks: NBA Champ, Multiple time All Defense (1st), All star
Manu Ginobili: NBA Champ, 6MOY, All-NBA (3rd) (2007-2008)
Shawn Marion: The Matrix, All NBA (3rd) Versatile defender
Andrei Kirilenko: All-Defense Team, All Star, 5x5 threat
Marc Gasol: DPOY, All NBA (2nd), High IQ player

Dogelover1234 failed to provide a gameplan. Please enjoy this signed Bargnani player card instead.




In Game Adjustments - Coming Soon!

So RR faithful, who wins this game?

[Maury]

Legacy League match 17 e_wheazy vs DogeLover1234

I think wheazy might have the beat team out of all of us. Doge is overmatched all over the place in this one, and he lacks the defensive ability to even stay in the game IMO. I vote wheazy.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I will wait for adjustments but im liking Doges lineup.. bill russell vs KG wouldn't turn out well for weazy.... and there is just so much fire power and a good balance of inside and outside shooting here.

[Joey]

Ya, I'll wait to see what/if they come up with adjustments, or I'll vote tonight, but I'm liking Doges team here.

Wheazy doesn't have a ton of shooting, and Doge has guys like Bill Russell and Gasol to make things tough for anyone going inside, with very solid outside defenders in Kirilenko, Cheeks and Shawn Marion waiting in the wings to react and things tough when his scorers are getting a short breather.

[Axel]

It's hard to imagine Nash putting up much resistance on Oscar. Dirk would struggle in this one. e_wheazy just seems like he has much fewer weaknesses to exploit.

[Joey]

It's hard to imagine Nash putting up much resistance on Oscar. Dirk would struggle in this one. e_wheazy just seems like he has much fewer weaknesses to exploit.

But vice-versa, its hard to imagine Oscar being able to keep up with Nash running around screens like crazy... which is what I assume Doge would be doing ... Haha

And you don't Prime Dirk could beat Draymond? Dirk had SO many tricks!

[Axel]

But vice-versa, its hard to imagine Oscar being able to keep up with Nash running around screens like crazy... which is what I assume Doge would be doing ... Haha

And you don't Prime Dirk could beat Draymond? Dirk had SO many tricks!

I'm just picturing Nash and Dirk defending the PnR and seeing that causing all kinds of problems. That's where wheazy's GP focused on and it's a huge liability.

Nash was never beating anyone with physical or athletic ability so I don't see why Oscar would have any particular trouble staying with him (perhaps Joey is just bias because Nash was on his team last year?).

Dirk is a great player but Green is as good as matchup for him as you can get.

Just see more holes that Doge has to cover than issues for wheazy. Wheazy's guys have to defend well but they don't have to compensate for 2 really poor defenders. That's a lot to overcome for Doge.

[BobLoblaw]

For me I think it might be hard to vote against Doge vs. anyone, it's just such a loaded team. A couple weak spots defensively, but the bench might help with it somewhat, a lot of good defenders there.

But offensively it looks near unguardable. Dirk, Wade, Nash, Pierce. Everyone's a good and willing passer. Wade was Dirk averaged 33-16 on Kevin Garnett in the playoffs, with crazy efficiency. He had some not so good series vs. lesser defenders too, but he's essentially unguardable if he's got it going, which he mostly does. With Dirk, you either help on him a lot or hope he ate something bad that day.

Anyway, it's not just about Dirk, it's a loaded team all around. wheazy has a very good team too, Doge's guys just would scare me more, more monsters in that closet.

[e_wheazhy_]

For me I think it might be hard to vote against Doge vs. anyone, it's just such a loaded team. A couple weak spots defensively, but the bench might help with it somewhat, a lot of good defenders there.

But offensively it looks near unguardable. Dirk, Wade, Nash, Pierce. Everyone's a good and willing passer. Wade was Dirk averaged 33-16 on Kevin Garnett in the playoffs, with crazy efficiency. He had some not so good series vs. lesser defenders too, but he's essentially unguardable if he's got it going, which he mostly does. With Dirk, you either help on him a lot or hope he ate something bad that day.

Anyway, it's not just about Dirk, it's a loaded team all around. wheazy has a very good team too, Doge's guys just would scare me more, more monsters in that closet.

Ya, I'll wait to see what/if they come up with adjustments, or I'll vote tonight, but I'm liking Doges team here.

Wheazy doesn't have a ton of shooting, and Doge has guys like Bill Russell and Gasol to make things tough for anyone going inside, with very solid outside defenders in Kirilenko, Cheeks and Shawn Marion waiting in the wings to react and things tough when his scorers are getting a short breather.

I will wait for adjustments but im liking Doges lineup.. bill russell vs KG wouldn't turn out well for weazy.... and there is just so much fire power and a good balance of inside and outside shooting here.

Is it even worth writing a game plan?

Dirk and Nash can't guard ANYONE on my team. They don't have defensive stoppers beside them either. Russell is elite, but he's going to have to rotate a lot to clean up messes; we will punish that. Dipping into the bench means byebye firepower... can't play 3-on-5 defensively.

[Axel]

Is it even worth writing a game plan?

Dirk and Nash can't guard ANYONE on my team. They don't have defensive stoppers beside them either. Russell is elite, but he's going to have to rotate a lot to clean up messes; we will punish that. Dipping into the bench means byebye firepower... can't play 3-on-5 defensively.

Yeah I didn't really get that logic either. You can't have defensive weaknesses especially at PG.

[BobLoblaw]

I don't mean to trash wheazy's team, it's a good team. I think Doge probably would beat my team in real life too, even if he lost the voting in both cases.

I just think Doge has one of the most loaded teams in this draft.

If Dray Green had the length and ability to successfully check prime Dirk, then you'd think LeBron would've been able to check Dirk too. Or was LeBron a worse defender than Green? Or prime KG, a 7 footer with a lot of length who moved like a small forward. Dirk roasted him too. Even double teams couldn't do much to Dirk by 2011.

Besides, Dirk wasn't even that bad a defender by that time. Green will be a problem for him, sure, but not as much as Dirk will be for Green.

There are a couple weak defensive spots, but a lot of strong defenders too, a great defensive center, and a great defensive bench. The Bulls had one of the best defenses in recent years while starting Boozer and Mike Dunleavy and an old slow Hinrich. You can't fully cover bad defenders but you can do a pretty good job.

Doge's team is also just so well built on offense. Great shooting, great passing, Dirk paired with a super athlete up front, Nash paired with maybe the greatest off the ball cutter that we've ever had in the NBA in the backcourt. You just have to help and double team people all the time, and they are smart and great at passing to each other.

The way i see it, both teams will get their share of points here and do it efficiently. But ultimately Doge has some real playoff killers and hardest to defend players in history there. wheazy's best scorer is maybe James Harden off the bench. Or maybe Oscar? I liked what I saw of Oscar, and I think he'd be good, but hard to say, how good. He could really drive through traffic, great shooter off screens. But 60s stats are inflated.

[e_wheazhy_]

I don't mean to trash wheazy's team, it's a good team. I think Doge probably would beat my team in real life too, even if he lost the voting in both cases.

I just think Doge has one of the most loaded teams in this draft.

If Dray Green had the length and ability to successfully check prime Dirk, then you'd think LeBron would've been able to check Dirk too. Or was LeBron a worse defender than Green? Or prime KG, a 7 footer with a lot of length who moved like a small forward. Dirk roasted him too. Even double teams couldn't do much to Dirk by 2011.

Besides, Dirk wasn't even that bad a defender by that time. Green will be a problem for him, sure, but not as much as Dirk will be for Green.

There are a couple weak defensive spots, but a lot of strong defenders too, a great defensive center, and a great defensive bench. The Bulls had one of the best defenses in recent years while starting Boozer and Mike Dunleavy and an old slow Hinrich. You can't fully cover bad defenders but you can do a pretty good job.

Doge's team is also just so well built on offense. Great shooting, great passing, Dirk paired with a super athlete up front, Nash paired with maybe the greatest off the ball cutter that we've ever had in the NBA in the backcourt. You just have to help and double team people all the time, and they are smart and great at passing to each other.

The way i see it, both teams will get their share of points here and do it efficiently. But ultimately Doge has some real playoff killers and hardest to defend players in history there. wheazy's best scorer is maybe James Harden off the bench. Or maybe Oscar? I liked what I saw of Oscar, and I think he'd be good, but hard to say, how good. He could really drive through traffic, great shooter off screens. But 60s stats are inflated.

So you're speculating that his team could MAYBE be good on defense based on your own thoughts. That's fine, it's fair enough.

But then what's the point of even writing a game plan? I mean, I took time to think about how I was going to attack and defend against this team, made it all fit into a cohesive 150 word blurb while Doge was unable to do so. And the argument is that "well...maybe his team could be really good on D"...? I don't know, I'm just having a hard time understanding the logic here, I guess.

[Axel]

So you're speculating that his team could MAYBE be good on defense based on your own thoughts. That's fine, it's fair enough.

But then what's the point of even writing a game plan? I mean, I took time to think about how I was going to attack and defend against this team, made it all fit into a cohesive 150 word blurb while Doge was unable to do so. And the argument is that "well...maybe his team could be really good on D"...? I don't know, I'm just having a hard time understanding the logic here, I guess.

Yeah I feel ya but at least you won. I lost vs a gameplan that was essentially "wait for Axel's players to screw up" despite having a really balanced team and an on-point gameplan with specific attacks that were never addressed.

[BobLoblaw]

I kind of see your point re gameplan, but this is the system, so we live with it. No-gameplan isn't an automatic loss. I didn't blow out Doge either, he also didn't have a gameplan, several other people also lost votes vs. people with no gameplans, I don't see what's the big deal anyway.

It's all my speculation, sure, but it's an educated guess. Hard for me to believe that a team with 8 good to fantastic defenders would be so terrible on defense. Or that Green can defend Dirk well just like that, only because Doge didn't say anything. If one guy says 'Nash can't shoot' and another guy stays silent, should I also say nothing?

Ultimately, I think discussion about older players is the whole point of this thing, not just saying 'ok, poster X wins.' I want to discuss older players, not give someone an automatic win because someone else was lazy to send a gameplan. That would be really boring.

Also don't get the whole 'im afraid to vote and say anything because people might take revenge on me and not vote for me' discussion in the main thread. Is winning this thing THAT important? Stop being pussies and vote and talk.

[e_wheazhy_]

Yeah I feel ya but at least you won. I lost vs a gameplan that was essentially "wait for Axel's players to screw up" despite having a really balanced team and an on-point gameplan with specific attacks that were never addressed.

Yeah I didn't mean to make a huge deal about it by any means, I understand the nature of this is that it's open to interpretation. Would be cool to be able to refute people's claims though, but whatever.

For what it's worth, I think your team should've won. Haven't been able to.vote as much as I would want because work's been hectic buy hopefully that should clear up come august