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Legacy Semi BobLoblaw vs Axel

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  • #16
    congrats BobLoblaw on the win. Not sure if you strategically chose to prevent me from getting more posts or not, but well played if it was your plan.

    Now that I'm eliminated, I am going to address a few though.

    Maury wrote: View Post
    Sorry axe, but I vote Bob. I love both of these teams and they are really well built, but I really don't like that Bird is being relegated to a playmaker from the elbow. I agree with planetmars, and you need your best player to be your best player. I also love the front court of Mchale and Robinson.
    Larry Bird in the triple threat in a Dirk-esque elbow game is incredibly lethal. Kawhi is an amazing defender on the dribble, using his length to disrupt, so by giving Bird the triple threat option (as opposed to dribble initiated), it limits Kawhi's impact as a defender and allows the 50-40-90 shooter to keep him off balance with shots and drives. Hard to imagine anyone stopping Bird from there.

    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't really involve myself in this...but I can't figure out why Sabonis is coming off the bench. If you get the player at his peak, Sabonis is the best big on either roster and it's not really close.
    I love Sabonis and agree that he is up there with the all time greats. Unfortunately, I need votes to win and the average voter doesn't nearly see Sabonis that way. In fact, one of the other big Sabonis supporters around here is the guy I'm competing with. Too many voters can't get past the older broken down NBA Sabonis.

    hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    If sabonis is on the bench, Loblaw's frontcourt > Axel's frontcourt. That makes it a win for Loblaw imo.
    I think my front court holds up much better in this matchup than people seem to think. McHale was a great post defender but Ibaka is not a back to the basket post scorer and is significantly more athletic than McHale. McHale would struggle in PnR coverage (especially with CP3 running it) as the game has evolved in a way that wouldn't do him any favours. On the flip side, you'd be hard pressed to find a more athletic pair of rim protectors than Ibaka and Howard.

    Butler (and Artest) get to guard Kobe with these two watching their backs. I have a hard time believing that Kobe would have an easier time scoring against my defence than Bird would against Kawhi and co. Plus Kobe and Penny are both ISO, non-passing, scorers at their peak. Really would allow the defence to hone in on each possession.

    Anyways been a good run. Thought I could make it all the way with this group but came up just a bit short. BobLoblaw has a tough team. This would make one hell of a series in real life.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.


    • #17
      Good game!

      I felt you might go with twin towers vs. me again (Dwight/Sabonis), which I didn't like in basketball sense, but I think a lot of people feel differently, and I felt it would've been good for voting for you.

      While I like Sabonis, tbh I like him not nearly as much as to agree that, as white men can't jump said, Sabonis is the best big on either roster and it's not really close. Sabonis came to the NBA right after his best Euro year. It's not like he came clearly 5 or 10 years too late like Prigioni. I think we have a pretty good measure of what his prime was compared to the rest of the NBA.

      If he comes to the NBA a bit earlier and adjusts to the team / rules / system earlier, maybe he plays 30+ minutes in mid 90s instead of 24-25, and maybe he plays a little bit better.

      He was an effective player per-minute, and if he can do that over more minutes and stay on the floor, he's probably around 20-10 and very likely an all star. But I think it's a stretch to think that he'd be some super mega star who's much better than actual MVPs and "it's not really close."

      I think with Sabonis, potential and peak get meshed together a bit too much. He was more mobile, athletic in 1986ish before injuries. That was his early 20s. If you combine that better 20 year old mobility with his 30 year old finesse game, it's fun to imagine what could've been.


      • #18
        Axel wrote: View Post
        Plus Kobe and Penny are both ISO, non-passing, scorers at their peak. Really would allow the defence to hone in on each possession.
        How is Penny a non-passing scorer? He was pass-first if anything. Was Pippen a non-passing scorer? Penny was arguably a better passer and a more skilled scorer.

        He scored a good amount, but people used to criticize him for not trying to score more and not being aggressive enough with his scoring. He was very efficient, didn't force shots, and always looked to get others involved.

        Kobe, I guess fair enough, he's going to be very aggressive, but Kobe is a high bball IQ player and he played well within the triangle. He moved the ball well and knew his spots to get aggressive and to move it. In general, I'd say my starting unit is one of the highest IQ units in the draft.

        Yes, there's no Stockton type, a ball dominant pass first point guard, but I'm not sure how much that type is necessary in real life or in a draft like this.

        To me, if you have a dream team like we all do, with a bunch of superstars who are high IQ ball handlers and can cause problems for the other team, some sort of Spurs motion or triangle based offense makes more sense than giving a Stockton the ball and asking him to run pick and rolls.


        • #19
          Also, I think McHale's mobility is quite underrated here. He regularly guarded guys like Chambers who was a power 3 / stretch 4, or Aquirre who was a Melo type, or Dantley who was basically a guard with 20ft range and penetration game, and that would be impossible without good mobility. He wasn't Kevin Garnett quick, but he was solid.

          He was a very smart guy with freakish length, good footwork and good enough mobility to guard small forwards way outside the post.

          He was one of the better shooting big men of the 80s as well. Later when Bird was losing his quickness and needed to be in the post a bit more, the Celtics would even spot McHale up at 3pt line occasionally.

          McHale was a pretty well rounded player, he was an active guy who ran transition, got some offensive rebounds, had a good post up game, could shoot and defend multiple positions. He was a mentally tough guy too, with enough heart to play on a broken foot in the playoffs.

          It doesn't make him the best power forward, because he wasn't as good an offensive player as Dirk or Barkley, and wasn't as good on D as Garnett or Duncan, but he was pretty well rounded.
          Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sun Aug 28, 2016, 09:57 AM.