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Head Coach Rankings 2016/17

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  • Head Coach Rankings 2016/17

    Let us see where our favourite coach ranks based on this article.

    Personally, I feel he is anywhere between 14-15 spots too high on this list.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-training-camp

  • #2
    I don't understand these rankings either. Its amazing, how the perception of a coach can change based solely on win totals and how deep they go in the playoffs. Casey has his blind spots, as many coaches have, but I can't get over how stubborn he is in adhering to his system no matter how flawed it is, and his unwillingness to shift strategies mid-game when his tactics clearly aren't working. Masai must like him though.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sinbad wrote: View Post
      I don't understand these rankings either. Its amazing, how the perception of a coach can change based solely on win totals and how deep they go in the playoffs. Casey has his blind spots, as many coaches have, but I can't get over how stubborn he is in adhering to his system no matter how flawed it is, and his unwillingness to shift strategies mid-game when his tactics clearly aren't working. Masai must like him though.
      Yes, incredible how producing good results makes people think of you as someone who can produce good results.

      I hate to break it to you but this is how it works in every industry and business on the planet cause, you know, it makes sense and stuff.

      Comment


      • #4
        So DC is ranked 14th overall. Not bad for a guy viewed as a stumblebum by a good percentage of Raptors fans. The poll is as subjective a piece as any before the season starts. A couple of guys in front of him, Quinn Snyder and Mike Malone, have yet to take their respective teams into the playoffs let alone advance a round or two so thats a curious choice by the BR crew. Again its subjective. Maybe they like style over substance.

        Going to be interesting to see the how the anointed boy genius Brad Stevens fares this year. Boston now has a superstar in Al Horford. They have 5 players ranked in the top 100 in the league from the SI poll. Some circles have Boston posting a breakout 55 plus win season. If the Celts somehow miss attaining even a 50 win season and somehow miss making the ECF will it be because Brad is no longer a genius, or will it be because Brads players were not able to to execute on certified coaching genius devised plans ?

        Still can’t stop thinking about how Boston flamed out last year, in the first round, again, by running isolation sets for Isaiah Thomas as their go to offense against the Hawks. Maybe even geniuses have off nights.
        Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Sep 19, 2016, 03:06 PM.
        And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Man, these coaching rankings are so subjective as to be almost practically useless. E.G. How does Brett Brown anywhere near the top half of coaches? How is Erik Spoelstra in the top 10 after achieving mediocrity (at best) since Lebron left? And how do you even rank a coach like Kenny Atkinson, who has never coached in the league, ever?

          It's a weird list, tbh. Blogs must be getting pretty low on content at this point in the off-season.
          Last edited by golden; Mon Sep 19, 2016, 04:22 PM.

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          • #6
            Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
            So DC is ranked 14th overall. Not bad for a guy viewed as a stumblebum by a good percentage of Raptors fans. The poll is as subjective a piece as any before the season starts. A couple of guys in front of him, Quinn Snyder and Mike Malone, have yet to take their respective teams into the playoffs let alone advance a round or two so thats a curious choice by the BR crew. Again its subjective. Maybe they like style over substance.

            Going to be interesting to see the how the anointed boy genius Brad Stevens fares this year. Boston now has a superstar in Al Horford. They have 5 players ranked in the top 100 in the league from the SI poll. Some circles have Boston posting a breakout 55 plus win season. If the Celts somehow miss attaining even a 50 win season and somehow miss making the ECF will it be because Brad is no longer a genius, or will it be because Brads players were not able to to execute on certified coaching genius devised plans ?

            Still can’t stop thinking about how Boston flamed out last year, in the first round, again, by running isolation sets for Isaiah Thomas as their go to offense against the Hawks. Maybe even geniuses have off nights.
            You had me at "stumblebum"
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Most of us here don't like Casey and he has his serious flaws for sure, but I think that's the way it is with a lot of fan bases so he may not actually be as bad as we say relative to other coaches. To me, this ranking is fair. He's a players coach who is most of the time too stubborn to adjust, but every coach has their weaknesses and we probably don't know about most coaches the way we do about Casey. I'm still on the #FireCasey train tho.

              Comment


              • #8
                Maury wrote: View Post
                Most of us here don't like Casey and he has his serious flaws for sure, but I think that's the way it is with a lot of fan bases so he may not actually be as bad as we say relative to other coaches. To me, this ranking is fair. He's a players coach who is most of the time too stubborn to adjust, but every coach has their weaknesses and we probably don't know about most coaches the way we do about Casey. I'm still on the #FireCasey train tho.
                Personally, I think Casey is a middling coach with glaring blind spots (rudimentary isolation-heavy offense, shaky in-game tactics, baffling overuse of Scola) that got the Raptors to overachieve. I never understood the "He gets wins, so he must be a good coach" logic either. Wins didn't stop the Bulls from sacking Thibodeau. Vogel got sacked despite getting the Pacers to overachieve. David Blatt got sacked despite getting the Cavs to the Finals. And wins certainly didn't save Scott Brooks when the Thunder were looking for a scapegoat.

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                • #9
                  Sinbad wrote: View Post
                  Personally, I think Casey is a middling coach with glaring blind spots (rudimentary isolation-heavy offense, shaky in-game tactics, baffling overuse of Scola) that got the Raptors to overachieve. I never understood the "He gets wins, so he must be a good coach" logic either. Wins didn't stop the Bulls from sacking Thibodeau. Vogel got sacked despite getting the Pacers to overachieve. David Blatt got sacked despite getting the Cavs to the Finals. And wins certainly didn't save Scott Brooks when the Thunder were looking for a scapegoat.
                  To be fair, the Bulls and Pacers were stupid to fire their coaches. Not because of wins, mind you, I agree somewhat with your premise, but completely disagree with the evidence you are providing for it. Just because a coach gets fired doesn't mean he should have been fired, just like a long tenured coach is not always a great coach.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #10
                    Sinbad wrote: View Post
                    Personally, I think Casey is a middling coach with glaring blind spots (rudimentary isolation-heavy offense, shaky in-game tactics, baffling overuse of Scola) that got the Raptors to overachieve. I never understood the "He gets wins, so he must be a good coach" logic either. Wins didn't stop the Bulls from sacking Thibodeau. Vogel got sacked despite getting the Pacers to overachieve. David Blatt got sacked despite getting the Cavs to the Finals. And wins certainly didn't save Scott Brooks when the Thunder were looking for a scapegoat.
                    Mark Jackson is probably the best potential analogy to Casey, hopefully. He helped turned around the Warriors into a winning program and got the players (Curry, Klay) to really believe in themselves and overachieve far beyond the expected talent of their draft position. But he also had his flaws (ISO) and was using some guys incorrectly (e.g. Barnes). And yet, GSW decided to make a change even though they were a team on the rise and surprisingly, they had another gear that Kerr helped them achieve.

                    The biggest difference, though, was Jackson's personality and relationship with management which was tenuous; whereas Casey is the definition of company man and has Masai in his back pocket. Being likable and easy to work with can take you a long, long way in life.

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                    • #11
                      See I like Casey, however I think it should be a coaching staff award not an individual coach award.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        To be fair, the Bulls and Pacers were stupid to fire their coaches. Not because of wins, mind you, I agree somewhat with your premise, but completely disagree with the evidence you are providing for it. Just because a coach gets fired doesn't mean he should have been fired, just like a long tenured coach is not always a great coach.
                        Oh I agree that the Bulls and Pacers front offices were foolish to sack Thibodeau and Vogel. Neither deserved to get fired. Chicago is one of the most anti-coach organizations in basketball, so much that Jeff Van Gundy called them out during an ESPN broadcast when the media there was savaging Thibs in the press-- with the backing of the Bulls front office. Bird wanted to play smaller and faster, but Vogel didn't, and I wager if the Pacers had upset the Raptors he would still have a job. Blatt, well, LeBron ran out of patience with him, so that's probably not the best analogy to use. He's one of the few players that can snap his fingers and get someone fired-- there's nobody like that on the Raptors. Brooks delivered wins, internal improvement, career high seasons, and even a finals appearance, but his tactics and coaching strategy were routinely eviscerated by the media as too iso-heavy. I don't think he deserved to get fired, but the theoretical groundwork for seeking an upgrade was evident-- the FO wanted more ball-movement, and missing the playoffs via Durant's injury was good cover to do so.

                        Mark Jackson is probably the best potential analogy to Casey, hopefully. He helped turned around the Warriors into a winning program and got the players (Curry, Klay) to really believe in themselves and overachieve far beyond the expected talent of their draft position. But he also had his flaws (ISO) and was using some guys incorrectly (e.g. Barnes). And yet, GSW decided to make a change even though they were a team on the rise and surprisingly, they had another gear that Kerr helped them achieve.

                        The biggest difference, though, was Jackson's personality and relationship with management which was tenuous; whereas Casey is the definition of company man and has Masai in his back pocket. Being likable and easy to work with can take you a long, long way in life.
                        I agree with this. Management didn't like Jackson, and he didn't trust them for trying to strong-arm him with their handpicked assistants. He wanted to hire his own staff. But his players loved playing for him-- except Bogut. He loathed him, and was happy to see him go. In hindsight, its easy to say, "But the Warriors got better!", but coming off a 50+ win season and taking the Clippers to 7 with a depleted team, I don't think Jackson deserved to get sacked. He did preach the same iso-heavy style that Casey does and came under fire for it, though he did a better job at holding everyone accountable on defense than Casey ever will. He didn't hesitate to sit Curry, Klay, or Draymond for slacking on D-- something they've all credited him for years later.

                        The difference is that Masai/MLSE are willing to stomach his faults because he provides stability, they know he's not going to rock the boat too much or openly rail against management, and that DD and Kyle like playing for him. He's also a company man through and through, and I'll be shocked if he's ever publicly disagreed with Masai or MLSE over anything. I've noticed that the media doesn't hold his feet to the fire like the fanbase does, so being pleasant and cordial with reporters must help. He even won an award for being so media-friendly. But are those good reasons to eschew the tactical aspects of coaching that become glaring issues when the Raptors have their backs against the wall? I don't believe so, but Masai/MLSE do.
                        Last edited by Sinbad; Tue Sep 20, 2016, 10:47 AM.

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                        • #13
                          golden wrote: View Post
                          The biggest difference, though, was Jackson's personality and relationship with management which was tenuous; whereas Casey is the definition of company man and has Masai in his back pocket. Being likable and easy to work with can take you a long, long way in life.
                          A "company man" doesn't have management in his back pocket, by definition, he is in thrall to the company itself. That's what being a "company man" means. In fact, "company men" are generally disliked by their fellow co-workers, including most of their bosses, because they all know that the guy will throw them all under the bus if he thinks it will benefit the business to do so and that he has no loyalty to anyone. That, to me, doesn't describe Casey at all. In the NBA, when I think of "company men", I think of a guy like Gar Forman in Chicago who seems like a guy who would run over his own grandmother if Reinsdorf told him to.

                          Not being on the inside it is tough to be sure but I would guess Casey is very good at "managing up". He knows what Ujiri and the front office want to see and hear and he delivers. Based on how well-liked he was by the Dallas people and how the front office has changed up the staff over the last couple of years without any public objection from Casey, this makes some sense to me.

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                          • #14
                            slaw wrote: View Post
                            A "company man" doesn't have management in his back pocket, by definition, he is in thrall to the company itself. That's what being a "company man" means. In fact, "company men" are generally disliked by their fellow co-workers, including most of their bosses, because they all know that the guy will throw them all under the bus if he thinks it will benefit the business to do so and that he has no loyalty to anyone. That, to me, doesn't describe Casey at all. In the NBA, when I think of "company men", I think of a guy like Gar Forman in Chicago who seems like a guy who would run over his own grandmother if Reinsdorf told him to.

                            Not being on the inside it is tough to be sure but I would guess Casey is very good at "managing up". He knows what Ujiri and the front office want to see and hear and he delivers. Based on how well-liked he was by the Dallas people and how the front office has changed up the staff over the last couple of years without any public objection from Casey, this makes some sense to me.
                            Unless you haven't been paying attention, Casey throws people under the bus all the time when things go wrong and he's directly criticized.

                            Like when he blamed Lou Williams (and indirectly Masai himself) for changing the entire defensive identity of the team. Or last 1st round of playoffs when he said DeMar should pass the ball more (contradicting his previous statements when he was criticized for lack-of-ball movement coaching strategies. And then there's the public lamenting of JV's lack of speed or Kyle's fitness, or needing more veterans, etc.., etc.., It goes on and on and there interview clips and articles can be found to back this up.

                            BTW - the actual definition of Company Man is below, and I don't think it's too far off.

                            http://www.dictionary.com/browse/company-man

                            noun
                            1.
                            an employee whose allegiance to his employer comes before personal beliefs or loyalty to fellow workers.
                            Last edited by golden; Tue Sep 20, 2016, 01:29 PM.

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                            • #15
                              golden wrote: View Post
                              Unless you haven't been paying attention, Casey throws people under the bus all the time when things go wrong and he's directly criticized.

                              Like when he blamed Lou Williams (and indirectly Masai himself) for changing the entire defensive identity of the team. Or last 1st round of playoffs when he said DeMar should pass the ball more (contradicting his previous statements when he was criticized for lack-of-ball movement coaching strategies. And then there's the public lamenting of JV's lack of speed or Kyle's fitness, or needing more veterans, etc.., etc.., It goes on and on and there interview clips and articles can be found to back this up.

                              BTW - the actual definition of Company Man is below, and I don't think it's too far off.

                              http://www.dictionary.com/browse/company-man

                              noun
                              1.
                              an employee whose allegiance to his employer comes before personal beliefs or loyalty to fellow workers.
                              You don`t last to long in your job or position if your throwing people under the bus with a great deal of frequency.... We differ here but I don`t think Casey does throw his players or assistants under the bus ... its part of why he still has the ear of the players ...If he did.. they would tune him out and the death watch would be on...an example of that is Torts... his act only lasts so long before the players just quit on a jackass like that...

                              Saying Demar has to pass more or that more experienced veteran players would help in the playoffs or that there is room for Kyle to work himself into better shape for the next season either during a presser or an interview or where ever he blurted those things out is what I would think is public personal evaluation... it can sting .. but its not specifically blaming someone for losing and its all their fault...which is what I think constitutes `throwing someone under the bus`is.

                              If he said something like... Even though we gave up a lot of open shots and turned the ball over but battled back to take a late lead...the reason we lost this game on the last play tonight was James Johnson did not pick player X on a switch when we specifically called for him to look for it and that cost us the game because Johnson is as stupid as they come and why we lost...... now that would be tossing someone under the bus ...

                              Which is vintage Torterella
                              Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Sep 20, 2016, 05:04 PM.
                              And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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