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  • JV averages about 20% usage already.. and is such a professional / team player that I doubt he'd care if he got even less touches. Millsap would make JV a good defender as Millsap can cover the perimeter or the low post. Millsap is one of the better (smarter) defenders out there.

    I'd rather just keep JV. If the argument is that his $16M cap hit would go to waste.. then the reverse argument is that it would be hard to find a defensive minded center that can rebound that makes much less. Deadmon and Capela are the only guys I can think of but their respective teams won't be trading them any time soon (SAS and Houston).

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    • Lupe wrote: View Post
      Paul is also a pretty high usage guy. Been around 24-25% the last 4 seasons. Would go down a touch here but I think it'd be even more easy to handle a big who's better defensively but worse offensively than JV as he wouldn't really need or demand any touches. Could run a lot of pick and roll action with Millsap also which would be devastating given his ability to create as the roll man (something 2Pat and JV can't really do).
      Looking at recent games, amount of trapping thrown at both DD and KL seems to increase even more and Milsap with his playmaking would help a lot with that. This is the move to make, and just take makes a lot of sense, that even reddit knows it. But ATL doesn't want to rebuild, they want to contend (and at least pretend) in following seasons. Do they want to help conference rival improve already a contender rooster? Apart from the trade we don't have an option to bring another all-star here and they know it.

      Lupe wrote: View Post
      That's why I actually think it's not a bad idea to move JV in this deal if you can get a mobile, defensive minded center from another team as part of the trade or in a quick follow up, hence the Noel suggestion.
      Still I'd give a time to test Milsap/JV combo, PPat/JV works, why JV/Milsap wouldn't?

      Noel is an unproven volatile asset. He has no offensive repertoire, already character issues and I'd like to point about some things about fit, because it isn't only issue on the offensive side with him, as with the defense as well.

      Our biggest trouble this season is not opp EFG% (although it's bad - 9th worst in the league, but connected with massive amounts of easy looks coming in form of putbacks and open 3s after offensive rebounds), not opp FTA Rate (16th, once again inflated by OREB) and definitely not opp TOV% (2nd best). The problem is DREB% where we are once again dead last in the league this season.

      Noel not even in his rookie season, which he spent solely at C, had ever rebounding percentage bigger than 15% (PHI that year was 4th worst in the league in that aspect). Do you expect that improvements in other areas of defense would cover even bigger drop off in rebounding? (I know these are all assumptions, but that's all what we have, still they are reasonable ones based on stats.)

      Replacing Siakam minutes (and cutting minutes of some other players, that'd be left in the front-court after the trade) with Milsap (good rebounder, excellent defender) should improve D a lot, but if that's not enough we should explore more options afterwards.

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      • Lupe wrote: View Post
        Paul is also a pretty high usage guy. Been around 24-25% the last 4 seasons. Would go down a touch here but I think it'd be even more easy to handle a big who's better defensively but worse offensively than JV as he wouldn't really need or demand any touches. Could run a lot of pick and roll action with Millsap also which would be devastating given his ability to create as the roll man (something 2Pat and JV can't really do).

        That's why I actually think it's not a bad idea to move JV in this deal if you can get a mobile, defensive minded center from another team as part of the trade or in a quick follow up, hence the Noel suggestion.
        I don't think you need to make another trade for C. Sully started 71 games for a top 5 D last year. Bebe is getting better month by month. Poeltl has also shown a lot of promise as well.

        I do agree about the usage thing. If people are mad about JV not getting enough shots now than I'm scared of what will happen in RR if Milsap is brought in. Essentially JV will just be a rebounder and screen setter. Will still be a defensive liability in PnR.

        I think JV stays in a trade for Milsap but, I also think this is JV's last year as a raptor. With or without Milsap on the team.



        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Mon Jan 2nd, 2017, 11:59 AM.
        @Chr1st1anL

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        • This is a much simpler trade. Hawks turn an expiring Millsap into a bevy of young talent with an immediate replacement at PF. Picks can be added. It might be giving up too much, actually.



          http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jufkl5p

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          • Ross, Cory + two or so picks for Millsap + Bembry

            Simple

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            • tDotted wrote: View Post
              Ross, Cory + two or so picks for Millsap + Bembry

              Simple
              Not that simple. I think it'll cost Sullinger and Ross at least. They pretty much get a replacement for Millsap.

              Comment


              • Axel wrote: View Post
                It's not surprising to see people all over the place.

                For me, Bebe has always been an interesting backup C but until he can prove he can play a full season healthy, I'd be very concerned about handing him a starting spot.
                Bebe is going to have a hard time ever getting more than 20 mpg as long as he rebounds like crap, given his size and position. He does a lot of things well/with potential for improvement, but the boards are a real issue.

                Man if the Raptors have an opportunity to add Millsap to the other starting 4, they have to do it.

                Which player(s) do the Raptors have to include for ATL to even consider the offer? "Put (Player X) on the table or we're hanging up."
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  This is a much simpler trade. Hawks turn an expiring Millsap into a bevy of young talent with an immediate replacement at PF. Picks can be added. It might be giving up too much, actually.



                  http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jufkl5p
                  They have a full roster. So it means they'd have to send back 3 more players to even out the deal. In which case, the salaries won't come close to matching. Unless they are willing to waive guys and eat salary to pull off a Millsap deal, which I seriously doubt - they'll want to have their cake and eat it too if they sell on a star like that.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • ATL just signed Dwight, Bazemore, and Schroder to good sized contracts. Do they really want a handfull of bench players and prospects or do they demand a starter in return for their All-Star PF?
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • tDotted wrote: View Post
                      Ross, Cory + two or so picks for Millsap + Bembry

                      Simple
                      In what universe does the team selling the star include a prospect in the deal?
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        ATL just signed Dwight, Bazemore, and Schroder to good sized contracts. Do they really want a handfull of bench players and prospects or do they demand a starter in return for their All-Star PF?
                        Ross + CoJo would be a good haul of players for Millsap. Ross would be their best wing player and CoJo would be their best backup PG by a large margin.

                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        In what universe does the team selling the star include a prospect in the deal?
                        Hey ATL isn't very smart

                        Anyway, remove Bembry from that deal and they could just cut Kelly from their roster.

                        Comment


                        • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                          Just wondering, do you guys really think we should go all in for Millsap, like trading anything needed to get him but DD and Kyle?
                          Talent wise; I want to say yes but he's an expiring contract. It's not worth giving up the assets needed to grab him for essentially a half season rental and then hope he wants to stay here in the summer.

                          Even moreso since getting him would likely mean losing Ross and/or Patterson. Now if it was on a deal based around Carroll and Sullinger; I might be singing a different toon.
                          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                          • A.I wrote: View Post
                            Not that simple. I think it'll cost Sullinger and Ross at least. They pretty much get a replacement for Millsap.
                            would rather trade ross+sully than ross+cojo anyways. sullinger is a non-issue if we're getting millsap and keeping patterson. doubt atlanta would though.


                            S.R. wrote: View Post
                            Bebe is going to have a hard time ever getting more than 20 mpg as long as he rebounds like crap, given his size and position. He does a lot of things well/with potential for improvement, but the boards are a real issue.

                            Man if the Raptors have an opportunity to add Millsap to the other starting 4, they have to do it.

                            Which player(s) do the Raptors have to include for ATL to even consider the offer? "Put (Player X) on the table or we're hanging up."
                            gotta be ross or powell, right? I wouldn't like to give up both though.
                            Last edited by KHD; Mon Jan 2nd, 2017, 12:50 PM.

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                            • KHD wrote: View Post
                              would rather trade ross+sully than ross+cojo anyways. sullinger is a non-issue if we're getting millsap and keeping patterson. doubt atlanta would though.

                              gotta be ross or powell, right? I wouldn't like to give up both though.
                              Any fan following Raps would rather send Sully than CoJo, but ATL need players that are guaranteed beyond this season, Sully is only salary filler and doesn't bring any value, not even bird rights, they'd have to use salary cap to be able to sign him. Surely for that sole reason they value CoJo higher (different position, but similar talent level).

                              Key and base to any trade for Milsap is Ross, without his salary we'd have to send Sully (non-issue) and CoJo (risky) and PPat (avoid, still it's not a deal breaker) just to match salaries.

                              Comment


                              • Have just gone through this thread since it got lit last night. The ideas are all over the place. Anyone feel like doing the heavy lifting on looking at past precedents for this with the essential components "all star" and "rental" being equally important?

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