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  • Axel wrote: View Post
    This logic also means that Luis Scola is a logical choice to be a starting NBA PF this year because, you know, context is irrelevant.

    I'm baffled that people who think JV is too slow to play C for us think that Sully is an answer.
    i'm not

    Comment


    • Raptors interest is hitting ESPN. Millsap getting serious shade here:

      http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18396018

      First segment.

      Comment


      • slamdunk23 wrote: View Post
        I don't think its fair to say that they got Prince for Teague & Horford. The deal was only for Teague. Horford left because the ATL FO liked Howard over Horford.
        Well tDotted just gave you a breakdown of what actually happened but here's the simple fact..

        From their 60W starting line up they have lost Teague, Horford and Carroll and all they have to show for it is Taurean Prince (period). That's why I'm just getting sick of reading about Poeltl supposedly not being worth whatever or not being a top 10 pick in another draft. Who cares?!

        Simply put he alone is arguably worth more than Prince who is the only thing ATL has gotten for for ALL their loss and now they have pretty much no bargaining power and Poeltl (who again is better than what they've gotten) is just being suggested as a part of package that contains more young players. I'm definitely not saying we're the only suitors but when you actually look at ATL's situation and the number of teams that have a 2-3 year window for what's likely left in Sap's tank I feel fairly confident that what we're suggesting is one of the better offers.

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        • Axel wrote: View Post
          The reason this is getting pointless is because people can't even agree on simple things like "is it safe to call Poeltl the 9th pick".
          This is a diversion from what is actually being discussed.

          We know Poeltl was the 9th pick, but trying to use that as an argument that he has significant trade value is just not correct.

          Comment


          • Axel wrote: View Post
            This logic also means that Luis Scola is a logical choice to be a starting NBA PF this year because, you know, context is irrelevant.

            I'm baffled that people who think JV is too slow to play C for us think that Sully is an answer.
            It's sad but, Sully is more agile than JV. He also has a way higher ball IQ. It's not comparable at all to Scola. Sully actually graded well as a defender at C. Also Celtics were a better defensive team than the raps last year.

            Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
            @Chr1st1anL

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            • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
              Raptors interest is hitting ESPN. Millsap getting serious shade here:

              http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18396018

              First segment.
              I couldn't link it but there's a Windhorst interview on the Espn NBA home page that definitely highlights the Raptors. This is starting to get that Rudy Gay premonition feel (starved at the SF position for years....Gay's name was floated as being on his way out of Memphis...it just felt like it would happen)

              Comment


              • Comparing Milsap situation to Teague and using it to rationalize that he is worth a lottery pick, because this is what took to deal Teague is really not a good idea, their situation is so much different. They dealt Teague to open an avenue for Schroder to start and it appears to be a good decision. Teague is on dirt cheap contract for one more year, but an average defender, and ATL had a reason to give up on him, as offense often stalled with him at the helm and that pick seemed like reasonable return. What i don't get is why Indiana flipped George Hill for him, who is great defender and better shooter, I guess UTA is the true winner of that trade. Only thing thing that makes Hawks want to deal Milsap are assets that they may receive, no other motivation is in play like with Teague, when moving him guaranteed opportunity to grow for Dennis.

                Horford was in the same category last year, maybe they learned their lesson maybe not. Last year on that date ATL was 20-14, so these moves made them slightly worse (advanced stats shows that even more) and reasonable thing to expect is that they won't endanger future even more by losing Milsap for nothing.

                Comment


                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  This is a diversion from what is actually being discussed.

                  We know Poeltl was the 9th pick, but trying to use that as an argument that he has significant trade value is just not correct.
                  I agree, you are trying to divert the discussion by arguing the semantics of calling Poeltl the 9th pick in a trade package where he is the 3rd piece mentioned and not once was it said that the "9th pick/Poeltl" has significant trade value.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment


                  • Lupe wrote: View Post
                    This is a diversion from what is actually being discussed.

                    We know Poeltl was the 9th pick, but trying to use that as an argument that he has significant trade value is just not correct.
                    Actually the aversion seems to be on your end...perhaps I missed it but I don't see anyone that claimed he was significant trade value and YOU are making it out like he is the focal point of the trade.

                    Posters are pointing to his selection in the draft is in relation to what ATL has already accepted in a previous trade and to highlight ALL they have received during their loss of Carroll, Teague and Horford. So people are pointing out like he's not some meaningless piece of no value when he alone is arguably more value than anything they have gotten since their core has eroded to nothing, it's all about the relative value based on a previous trade to try and gauge what may be acceptable, Poeltl was merely a piece of a larger package being suggested. Clearly you're missing that point.
                    Last edited by JamesNaismith; Mon Jan 2, 2017, 05:39 PM.

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                    • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                      Well tDotted just gave you a breakdown of what actually happened but here's the simple fact..

                      From their 60W starting line up they have lost Teague, Horford and Carroll and all they have to show for it is Taurean Prince (period). That's why I'm just getting sick of reading about Poeltl supposedly not being worth whatever or not being a top 10 pick in another draft. Who cares?!

                      Simply put he alone is arguably worth more than Prince who is the only thing ATL has gotten for for ALL their loss and now they have pretty much no bargaining power and Poeltl (who again is better than what they've gotten) is just being suggested as a part of package that contains more young players. I'm definitely not saying we're the only suitors but when you actually look at ATL's situation and the number of teams that have a 2-3 year window for what's likely left in Sap's tank I feel fairly confident that what we're suggesting is one of the better offers.
                      Well they also got the cap space to sign Howard but I'm not sure how much of a positive that was.

                      Also for everyone that is complaining about the Carroll contract look at what the hawks are paying Bazemore who is even having a worse year than carroll. 70 million over 4 years is looking brutal compared to 58/4.

                      Comment


                      • Another way to look at it. If everything goes according to plan (and, yes, flags do fly forever) and we get Milsap, could we have a team going forward that pays demar, Kyle and milsap all max-ish contracts? I guess the cavs do that with their big three but it's easier to fill out with some good cheap contracts if you have lebron. Maybe that will us.

                        Comment


                        • Majesiu wrote: View Post
                          Comparing Milsap situation to Teague and using it to rationalize that he is worth a lottery pick, because this is what took to deal Teague is really not a good idea, their situation is so much different. They dealt Teague to open an avenue for Schroder to start and it appears to be a good decision. Teague is on dirt cheap contract for one more year, but an average defender, and ATL had a reason to give up on him, as offense often stalled with him at the helm and that pick seemed like reasonable return. What i don't get is why Indiana flipped George Hill for him, who is great defender and better shooter, I guess UTA is the true winner of that trade. Only thing thing that makes Hawks want to deal Milsap are assets that they may receive, no other motivation is in play like with Teague, when moving him guaranteed opportunity to grow for Dennis.

                          Horford was in the same category last year, maybe they learned their lesson maybe not. Last year on that date ATL was 20-14, so these moves made them slightly worse (advanced stats shows that even more) and reasonable thing to expect is that they won't endanger future even more by losing Milsap for nothing.
                          The other big difference here is the fact that Teague and Horford are gone, ATL is no longer in any position of power, their bluff has been called and they've lost a BIG piece for nothing and received very little in a single lotto pick that actually isn't that great of a player and the player left on their team has arguably the smallest window left in their career. There not quite beggers because teams will still look to somewhat outbid each other but I highly, highly doubt that get anywhere near what they would like and getting something even if not ideal is a must.

                          Comment


                          • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                            Another way to look at it. If everything goes according to plan (and, yes, flags do fly forever) and we get Milsap, could we have a team going forward that pays demar, Kyle and milsap all max-ish contracts? I guess the cavs do that with their big three but it's easier to fill out with some good cheap contracts if you have lebron. Maybe that will us.
                            Well Masai has already had quite a knack of finding some value contracts ie/ Biz and Sully. I would think with a team that is that much closer to truly contending that we would finally be in that category where some older vets that aren't able to squeeze in to GSW or CLE start looking at us like the Spurs because we'd essentially become the Spurs of the East.

                            It's also that, that makes it imperative that we do our best to refrain from including picks as best we can. Masai has been able to spot solid contributors and this year's draft could be an absolute gold mine for that (ie/ Jawun Evans immediately comes to mind). If we're absolutely forced into including a pick I would hope that it's either next years or a couple of 2nd rounders in combination with Poeltl and other younger players like Corey, Ross and one of Sully or Pat.

                            Comment


                            • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                              Another way to look at it. If everything goes according to plan (and, yes, flags do fly forever) and we get Milsap, could we have a team going forward that pays demar, Kyle and milsap all max-ish contracts? I guess the cavs do that with their big three but it's easier to fill out with some good cheap contracts if you have lebron. Maybe that will us.
                              Cavs pretty much have 4 if you include the near max TT got.

                              Comment


                              • ATL didn't exactly get nothing for losing Teague, Carroll, and Horford as FA's. Having FA's walk helped clear the cap space to sign Dwight and still make Horford a good offer last summer. They put themselves in a pretty good position to try to improve a roster that could never even win a game against Lebron in the postseason.

                                But yeah their talent is much thinner now and they don't want to lose current final season guys for nothing, especially if their season is mediocre - then there's no point in holding on to see what happens in the playoffs.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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