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  • Carroll + Bebe for Millsap. Let's do this!
    Mamba Mentality

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    • TRex wrote: View Post
      Carroll + Bebe for Millsap. Let's do this!
      Lol I'd even throw in my lunch money if they'd do it for those two guys.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • I'm surprised at the response but I'll give my justification...

        1) I'll start with the opposite this time and say that we need Ross because if we haven't noticed we're not just up against the Cavs again...now we're up against an even better shooting version with Kyle Korver dropping bombs. We will NEED every ounce of shooting we can get out on the court just to stay in the game and give ourselves a chance. I may be one of the biggest Powell homers out there but I know his 3pt shooting alone will not be enough (not to mention the slight dip from Pat to Sap in 3pt shooting) and he isn't as adept to nailing tough contested shots like Ross or as well off the dribble in tight spaces (which the Playoffs is very much about)

        2) Everyone seems to fluff of these picks without putting in any thought of what opportunities may be missed or how much in light of a trade for Sap we will need them. We're going to need those picks after because if we did in fact presumably trade Ross + Patt, our bench thins out substantially then add to the fact re-signing both Lowry and Millsap and we have next to no money to add any depth. We will need to do so by way of the draft and if some of you followed the talent in our pick range more intently you would see there is some serious potential and at worst players good enough to bring back that depth post trade

        ...it could be a #3 point but plays off of those picks as a discussion, everybody keeps talking about how any move may coincide with LeBron's timeline, well guess what Giannis is charging through the back door and by the time LBJ wears out there is a new beast that's just getting started. The irony of it is how desperate Masai was to get INTO that draft to draft Giannis...this may be a bit OT but I think OG Anunoby is this draft's "Giannis". There was just this subtle rumble about a player with great physical gifts and this year it's OG Season lol Having 2 picks, give Masai a chance to package them (and even our 2nd rdr too) to be potentially in position to get another player I'm almost certain he must be salivating over in OG but I regress.

        All I'm saying is if this trade goes down with one or both of these things going just remember when CLE is blasting us with 3s into another universe and in a few years when everyone is thinking damn I wish we had a chance to draft OG....that if you're remembering this statement....it's already too late lol
        Last edited by JamesNaismith; Fri Jan 6, 2017, 05:17 PM.

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        • Another wave of waived players: Denver's Alonzo Gee, Dallas' Pierre Jackson and Phoenix's John Jenkins and most importantly Hawks' Ryan Kelly so all potential trades no longer require sending same amount of players to ATL. There is still debacle if Hawks find suitor for Dunleavy and/or absorb also Mo Williams retirement pension. After it's all done ATL may have even 2 free roster spots.

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          • Only 48 days to go!
            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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            • I seriously doubt any teams will be trading down in this draft. History suggests that two mid-20's picks won't get you near the lottery anyway, so I doubt OG is even a possibility unless we are trading proven talent to move up.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                And Kevin Durant said he was happy with OKC...
                And DD said he was happy in Toronto.
                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                Comment


                • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                  I'm surprised at the response but I'll give my justification...

                  1) I'll start with the opposite this time and say that we need Ross because if we haven't noticed we're not just up against the Cavs again...now we're up against an even better shooting version with Kyle Korver dropping bombs. We will NEED every ounce of shooting we can get out on the court just to stay in the game and give ourselves a chance. I may be one of the biggest Powell homers out there but I know his 3pt shooting alone will not be enough (not to mention the slight dip from Pat to Sap in 3pt shooting) and he isn't as adept to nailing tough contested shots like Ross or as well off the dribble in tight spaces (which the Playoffs is very much about)

                  2) Everyone seems to fluff of these picks without putting in any thought of what opportunities may be missed or how much in light of a trade for Sap we will need them. We're going to need those picks after because if we did in fact presumably trade Ross + Patt, our bench thins out substantially then add to the fact re-signing both Lowry and Millsap and we have next to no money to add any depth. We will need to do so by way of the draft and if some of you followed the talent in our pick range more intently you would see there is some serious potential and at worst players good enough to bring back that depth post trade

                  ...it could be a #3 point but plays off of those picks as a discussion, everybody keeps talking about how any move may coincide with LeBron's timeline, well guess what Giannis is charging through the back door and by the time LBJ wears out there is a new beast that's just getting started. The irony of it is how desperate Masai was to get INTO that draft to draft Giannis...this may be a bit OT but I think OG Anunoby is this draft's "Giannis". There was just this subtle rumble about a player with great physical gifts and this year it's OG Season lol Having 2 picks, give Masai a chance to package them (and even our 2nd rdr too) to be potentially in position to get another player I'm almost certain he must be salivating over in OG but I regress.

                  All I'm saying is if this trade goes down with one or both of these things going just remember when CLE is blasting us with 3s into another universe and in a few years when everyone is thinking damn I wish we had a chance to draft OG....that if you're remembering this statement....it's already too late lol
                  I don't think it makes sense to put hope in drafting a superstar caliber player outside of a top 10 pick. For every Giannis there is going to be 10 Brunos.

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                  • Masai ain't trading nobody.

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                    • Joey wrote: View Post
                      Been thinking about this, and I'm torn on this one ... I'd lean toward Powell as well, but really only because he's a couple years younger than Ross, and still yet to really fill out his game.

                      That said, Ross has been great this year, fiiinally. 47% from the field, 40% from 3, Career high in points while playing the least amount of minutes since his rookie year.. dude is hungry and finally finding himself a niche. But perhaps this is a good "sell high" opportunity on him as well.
                      The problem is that the Raptors basically need to include 2 of the following players, assuming Lowry, DeRozan, JV and Carroll aren't being discussed:

                      Ross - $10.000M
                      Joseph - $7.315M
                      Patterson - $6.050M
                      Sullinger - $5.628M

                      Patterson and Joseph are totally Casey guys. The team released a statement indicating their desire to re-sign Patterson, and there isn't a proven backup behind Joseph, given Wright's injury.

                      Ross & Sullinger & at least 1 other asset (ie: Poeltl or a 2017 1st round pick) seems like the no-brainer deal, even if I am hesitant to surrender the team's only solid bench scorer.

                      --

                      For me, the bigger issue I have is beyond this season. I like the JV/Millsap/Patterson 3-headed monster, but worry about the lack of guard/wing depth and 3pt shooting if Ross is traded. Even if Lowry, Millsap and Patterson are all somehow re-signed, is that the best long-term play, given the team's inability to address the guard/wing depth issue outside of Powell/Wright/Bruno? They won't have any cap space, and will have used most of their best assets (ie: Ross, Poeltl and/or a 1st round pick) to acquire Millsap.
                      Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jan 6, 2017, 05:39 PM.

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                      • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        The problem is that the Raptors basically need to include 2 of the following players, assuming Lowry, DeRozan, JV and Carroll aren't being discussed:

                        Ross - $10.000M
                        Joseph - $7.315M
                        Patterson - $6.050M
                        Sullinger - $5.628M

                        Patterson and Joseph are totally Casey guys. The team released a statement indicating their desire to re-sign Patterson, and there isn't a proven backup behind Joseph, given Wright's injury.

                        Ross & Sullinger & at least 1 other asset (ie: Poeltl or a 2017 1st round pick) seems like the no-brainer deal, even if I am hesitant to surrender the team's only solid bench scorer.

                        --

                        For me, the bigger issue I have is beyond this season. I like the JV/Millsap/Patterson 3-headed monster, but worry about the lack of guard/wing depth and 3pt shooting if Ross is traded. Even if Lowry, Millsap and Patterson are all somehow re-signed, is that the best long-term play, given the team's inability to address the guard/wing depth issue outside of Powell/Wright/Bruno? They won't have any cap space, and will have used most of their best assets (ie: Ross, Poeltl and/or a 1st round pick) to acquire Millsap.
                        Frankly, not sure why ATL would want guys like Sullinger or Patterson or Joseph. If they are trading Milsap they are rebuilding, so I would have thought you'd want young guys like Poeltl or Powell instead. None of those guys are really any good to them, even Ross to some extent.

                        As for the bigger issue, well, they won't have cap space anyway, with or without Milsap. Any other deal they can make will be similar and will be for an equivalent player or someone worse. If you want to add elite talent, and Milsap is a vastly underrated player, the only way to do it is trade and if you can get a plus/plus defender who can score and facilitate and is a great teammate, it will be real hard to say no.

                        Comment


                        • slaw wrote: View Post
                          Frankly, not sure why ATL would want guys like Sullinger or Patterson or Joseph. If they are trading Milsap they are rebuilding, so I would have thought you'd want young guys like Poeltl or Powell instead. None of those guys are really any good to them, even Ross to some extent.
                          I think that's why Ross & Sullinger is the right combo for both teams to start, at least in terms of making salary match.

                          Patterson & Joseph seem much more valuable to Casey's system than on the open market, and Patterson is expiring. Ross probably has the highest market value (young, skilled, still has potential, great 3pt shooter, good defender) for a rebuilding team, while Sullinger's expiring contract is just filler.

                          I think the haggling probably comes down to what else gets included after those players. I could see Atlanta asking for some combination of Powell, Poeltl, Wright, Bruno, Siakam, LAC 2017 1st round pick, TOR 2017 1st round pick, TOR 2018 1st round pick, and wanting multiple assets. Toronto would obviously want to limit the number of assets, possibly down to 1 player and/or 1 pick.

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                          • Still don't see this getting done without JV. The only other pieces we'd have of interest to them are Ross and Powell. Every other asset is just low value given that they seem to be moving towards a rebuild and the picks are late and other prospects are mediocre.

                            I honestly think Ross is more valuable than JV (to us, not in a trade). Going to get ripped apart for saying that but he is. Several reasons behind this.

                            First of all I don't think Powell/Ross actually have that much overlap, and Powell isn't a replacement for Ross other than being able to play shooting guard. To me Powell is a combo guard with the ability to create in pick and roll situations as well as play off-ball a bit in a shared backcourt with Lowry or DeMar. Ross is a two-way marksman who can play the 2 or 3 off the bench and provide elite shooting that is extremely rare in this league for a very low price that we will never be able to acquire that level of shooting for again.

                            JV to me is a good player, a better one than Ross of course. However he's not really as useful in the modern game, and defensively is a major liability. I'd be more willing to trade him than do something like Ross+2Pat. You're talking about having literally ZERO shooters coming off the bench if you make a trade like that and it's just going to guarantee us getting outgunned by top teams.

                            Would rather move JV in the Millsap deal while trying to use CoJo, Sully, picks, prospects, etc to try and acquire someone like Noel to replace him in the starting 5. Again, get better defensively, Millsap probably soaks up the majority of his possessions offensively anyway in a more dynamic way while being a major plus on defense. Plus you keep 2Pat and Ross off the bench leaving you with a still very dangerous 2nd unit as opposed to a greatly depleted one.

                            You'd still have access to the Lowry+Bench lineup. You'd be able to go to Lowry/DD/Carroll/2Pat/Millsap in the clutch and bring Powell into the rotation regularly over CoJo which imo is a big improvement as he seems to be a better player already with more room to grow as well.
                            Last edited by Lupe; Fri Jan 6, 2017, 06:40 PM.

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                            • Hard to keep up with this thread.

                              I guess if ATL still wants to put butts in seats (instead of tanking) then they have Dennis, baze and Dwight to work with. I think both Ross and baze are more suited to SG. ATL might be the only team interested in Carroll. I'd prefer not to trade pat but if we do then I hope ATL will take Carroll and cojo. That clears 30m. I haven't tested this in TM but I'd assume we take thank back.
                              I'd prefer to only trade one pick, especially if we trade cojo and draft Evans. We're not getting obi wan anunoby.

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                              • Lupe wrote: View Post
                                Still don't see this getting done without JV. The only other pieces we'd have of interest to them are Ross and Powell. Every other asset is just low value given that they seem to be moving towards a rebuild and the picks are late and other prospects are mediocre.

                                I honestly think Ross is more valuable than JV (to us, not in a trade). Going to get ripped apart for saying that but he is. Several reasons behind this.

                                First of all I don't think Powell/Ross actually have that much overlap, and Powell isn't a replacement for Ross other than being able to play shooting guard. To me Powell is a combo guard with the ability to create in pick and roll situations as well as play off-ball a bit in a shared backcourt with Lowry or DeMar. Ross is a two-way marksman who can play the 2 or 3 off the bench and provide elite shooting that is extremely rare in this league for a very low price that we will never be able to acquire that level of shooting for again.

                                JV to me is a good player, a better one than Ross of course. However he's not really as useful in the modern game, and defensively is a major liability. I'd be more willing to trade him than do something like Ross+2Pat. You're talking about having literally ZERO shooters coming off the bench if you make a trade like that and it's just going to guarantee us getting outgunned by top teams.

                                Would rather move JV in the Millsap deal while trying to use CoJo, Sully, picks, prospects, etc to try and acquire someone like Noel to replace him in the starting 5. Again, get better defensively, Millsap probably soaks up the majority of his possessions offensively anyway in a more dynamic way while being a major plus on defense. Plus you keep 2Pat and Ross off the bench leaving you with a still very dangerous 2nd unit as opposed to a greatly depleted one.

                                You'd still have access to the Lowry+Bench lineup. You'd be able to go to Lowry/DD/Carroll/2Pat/Millsap in the clutch and bring Powell into the rotation regularly over CoJo which imo is a big improvement as he seems to be a better player already with more room to grow as well.
                                and then you have 3 guys who are going to ask for huge money this summer, and as far as i can see there's no way in hell MLSE is paying for lowry, millsap AND noel's next contracts. and, really, why should they? noel isn't some kind of saviour.

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