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  • Hawks shopping around Hardaway Jr now for 2nd rounders.

    Making even more room for Ross

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    • tDotted wrote: View Post
      Hawks shopping around Hardaway Jr now for 2nd rounders.

      Making even more room for Ross
      I wonder if we could get Tim Hardaway and Millsap from them. He could fill in for Ross.

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      • Again, why in the world would the Hawks want JV? They have a better C already.
        "Stay steamy"

        - Kobe

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        • The whole point of trading for Millsap has always been how well he fits with the three primary offensive players on the Raptors - Lowry, DD and JV - both supplementing their offensive games and giving a pressure release for when teams blitz PnR action in the playoffs, and defensively filling in the gaps that a lineup with DD and JV will inevitably have. They aren't going to trade one of them to get him.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            The whole point of trading for Millsap has always been how well he fits with the three primary offensive players on the Raptors - Lowry, DD and JV - both supplementing their offensive games and giving a pressure release for when teams blitz PnR action in the playoffs, and defensively filling in the gaps that a lineup with DD and JV will inevitably have. They aren't going to trade one of them to get him.
            Is JV really a primary offensive player this year? Doesn't Ross have a higher usage than him? Jv is being used as a screener and offensive rebounder. With Sap JV will get even less usage. I think the only two untouchables are Deebo and K Low.

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            @Chr1st1anL

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            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              Is JV really a primary offensive player this year? Doesn't Ross have a higher usage than him? Jv is being used as a screener and offensive rebounder. With Sap JV will get even less usage. I think the only two untouchables are Deebo and K Low.

              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
              Don't need the ball in your hands to be playing offence. Basically every Raptors set involves two or three screens from JV and him being an option on the roll or short pop to free up the guards.

              Plus, you know, he's third on the team in PPG, to bring it back to the most rudimentary of approaches.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                The whole point of trading for Millsap has always been how well he fits with the three primary offensive players on the Raptors - Lowry, DD and JV - both supplementing their offensive games and giving a pressure release for when teams blitz PnR action in the playoffs, and defensively filling in the gaps that a lineup with DD and JV will inevitably have. They aren't going to trade one of them to get him.
                Actually I think it's been getting a third star that fits really well with DeMar and Kyle. Not so much JV. If anything Millsap makes JV less useful as he's going to be taking away a lot of those roll man possessions that JV would normally be getting.

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                • We get it you guys want JV gone at all costs, but guess what? Hawks already have Howard, they have no need for JV.

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    Don't need the ball in your hands to be playing offence. Basically every Raptors set involves two or three screens from JV and him being an option on the roll or short pop to free up the guards.

                    Plus, you know, he's third on the team in PPG, to bring it back to the most rudimentary of approaches.
                    JV is not the only player on the team that can set screens. Also with Sap most of the PnR will be done with him as the roll man. Again less opportunity for JV. I just dont see the point of having him if all he is going to do is rebound.

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                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • A.I wrote: View Post
                      We get it you guys want JV gone at all costs, but guess what? Hawks already have Howard, they have no need for JV.
                      For all we know Howard might be the next one traded. Pretty sure he didn't sign up for a rebuilt.

                      Anyways I don't think JV gets traded during the season. If Raps do get Sap I think raps trade JV in the summer. I don't think he is untouchable in this situation.

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                      Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Fri Jan 6, 2017, 10:10 PM.
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • Jesus christ you'd think JV killed this christian guy's mom or something.
                        "Stay steamy"

                        - Kobe

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          For all we know Howard might be the next one traded. Pretty sure he didn't sign up for a rebuilt.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          Considering we can probably get Millsap for Ross + Patterson + picks or maybe even something less than that, there really is no need to overpay and give them JV, Howard or no Howard.

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                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            Actually I think it's been getting a third star that fits really well with DeMar and Kyle. Not so much JV. If anything Millsap makes JV less useful as he's going to be taking away a lot of those roll man possessions that JV would normally be getting.
                            The natural counter to this is if we're running 2-man games with Millsap as the screener, it forces the big guarding JV to decide if he wants to help in the lane or not, and giving up space to JV down low is a proven recipe for disaster for opponents as he's a great rebounder and finisher. If we keep relegating JV to a limited offensive role, he may become even more effective with Millsap around, even if his raw numbers don't change much in any direction.

                            I mean, I don't know what roll man possessions you mean since we rarely actually pass it to JV on the roll. And if his man is scared to leave him, which already happens a fair amount, then it makes it easier for the Millsap-oriented 2-man game to work.

                            In theory there's no reason why everyone wouldn't be able to benefit in terms of efficiency with Millsap around. The question is whether the team would adjust focus to balance out the offence rather than it just be the DeMar-Lowry show. And IMO, unless you have a transcendent talent like a LeBron, KD, Steph, etc., it's bad strategy to not balance out the offence.

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                            • A.I wrote: View Post
                              We get it you guys want JV gone at all costs, but guess what? Hawks already have Howard, they have no need for JV.
                              They're rebuilding now clearly so JV would definitely be an option. Not a hard sell on a Schroder-JV pairing to kick start their rebuild.

                              And it's not about getting rid of JV at all costs, it's about what's actually best for the team. If you trade 2Pat and Ross like many have suggested you literally have no shooting coming off the bench at all and you disappear our best bench lineup (Lowry+Bench). Yeah in theory Millsap just makes up for 2Pat being gone, but maybe he doesn't. And I'm still not buying Powell as a Ross replacement, he's not ever going to be that level of shooter imo. He seems like a Cory Joseph replacement to me.

                              You trade Jonas because most of what he offers can be replaced. Millsap takes up the mantle of 3rd scoring option and primary pick and roll partner for DD/Lowry. That turns Jonas' only really value into offensive rebounding which can be replaced by Sullinger at the 5 spot. Plus I've mentioned moving CoJo + parts for a center like Noel to start and make you better defensively while losing nothing on offense with Millsap coming in and giving you a lot of options for frontcourt pairings with 2Pat, Millsap, Sullinger, Noel-type and Carroll in some cases.

                              And the biggest reason is because I think the 2Pat-Millsap frontcourt would give us a legitimate chance against Cleveland's lineups with Bron at the 4. Remember those Amir-2Pat lineups we used to see a lot in 2013-14? It'd be that on steroids. More mobile, more potent offensively, more versatile.

                              It's not some JV crusade. It's a recognition that getting Millsap makes a lot of the things he does best fairly redundant.

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                              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                                The natural counter to this is if we're running 2-man games with Millsap as the screener, it forces the big guarding JV to decide if he wants to help in the lane or not, and giving up space to JV down low is a proven recipe for disaster for opponents as he's a great rebounder and finisher. If we keep relegating JV to a limited offensive role, he may become even more effective with Millsap around, even if his raw numbers don't change much in any direction.

                                I mean, I don't know what roll man possessions you mean since we rarely actually pass it to JV on the roll. And if his man is scared to leave him, which already happens a fair amount, then it makes it easier for the Millsap-oriented 2-man game to work.

                                In theory there's no reason why everyone wouldn't be able to benefit in terms of efficiency with Millsap around. The question is whether the team would adjust focus to balance out the offence rather than it just be the DeMar-Lowry show. And IMO, unless you have a transcendent talent like a LeBron, KD, Steph, etc., it's bad strategy to not balance out the offence.
                                It would become the K-Low/Deebo/Sap show.

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                                @Chr1st1anL

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