Everything Trade Chatter

[DanH]

For all this talking doesn't it seem like ATL has a deal in place already??


They're waiving Kelly and trying to trade TH Jr for 2nd rd picks. Seems like a team clearing out some roster spots to bring back at least couple extra, not something you would just do when you're not sure of the specifics?!

They waived Kelly so they can fit Mo Williams from the Cavs in the Korver deal, as they appear to be gaining no traction finding a third team. If they manage it, they can just sign Kelly again to another minimum deal.

[charlesnba23]

Nicely Said. Their Window is 3 years from this year. You are either committed to this core or you are not ...

We can either become the Memphis Grizzlies of the East and win 50+ game per seasons but never be relevant or really try to make the life hard on James and his boys and make a run for it.

Precisely what I think. And also, I just happen to think that Paul Millsap is really the perfect fit for this team. I just don't see another PF fitting more around here. It's a risky move, but we have to do it if we have the chance to.

Yeah, we will lose a couple really good core players, but we will get a legit starting PF, borderline superstar. Something we didn't have since CB4.

Also this: even if we lose assets, we are now an established really good team, with a winning culture and players who are willing to stay here and play a lot of seasons in Toronto. Losing Ross, even if Millsap doesn't come back next season (which I would highly doubt), would not mean the end of this team... at all...

This move would just show to the rest of the NBA that we really want to win. It's not like getting Jermaine O'Neal or Shawn Marion back in the days, when we were not a near win it all team. Like... not at all.

[iblastoff]

james johnson is playing out of this world with the heat now. could he have theoretically been a more permanent PF and even center at times? people have been saying as long as he sticks to defense and doesn't try too much he would have been fine. but now hes absolutely flourishing with the heat.

[iblastoff]

jalen doesn't think raps can beat the cavs even with millsap (starts around 15:50)

[Joey]

With so many teams jumping at Millsap, the price is likely to be inflated. I wonder if we shouldn't wait it out, and make a move at Ibaka later in the season when the Magic ultimately start "listening to offers"? I'd really still prefer him over Millsap anyway.

[Joey]

james johnson is playing out of this world with the heat now. could he have theoretically been a more permanent PF and even center at times? people have been saying as long as he sticks to defense and doesn't try too much he would have been fine. but now hes absolutely flourishing with the heat.

The heat are flaming trash right now, thus JJ has a green light just like everyone else on the Heat roster to fire away.
That said, I'm not surprised he's playing well, dude has always had a ton of talent. Would have loved for him to stick around, but clearly him and Casey didn't agree on something.

[tDotted]

james johnson is playing out of this world with the heat now. could he have theoretically been a more permanent PF and even center at times? people have been saying as long as he sticks to defense and doesn't try too much he would have been fine. but now hes absolutely flourishing with the heat.

JJ is pretty much the perfect backup 4 in "today's NBA". Somehow he developed a reliable 3 ball too which makes even that much better. Too bad he and Casey couldn't get along.. All the talk of JV being so out of place in this new league but JJ was the perfect fit and couldn't even get him a spot in the rotation.. I can't even.. lol.

With so many teams jumping at Millsap, the price is likely to be inflated. I wonder if we shouldn't wait it out, and make a move at Ibaka later in the season when the Magic ultimately start "listening to offers"? I'd really still prefer him over Millsap anyway.

No way they give away Ibaka. Gave away good chunk of their future for him.

[iblastoff]

JJ is pretty much the perfect backup 4 in "today's NBA". Somehow he developed a reliable 3 ball too which makes even that much better. Too bad he and Casey couldn't get along.. All the talk of JV being so out of place in this new league but JJ was the perfect fit and couldn't even get him a spot in the rotation.. I can't even.. lol.

yeah hes been shooting the 3 ball really well! i don't care if the heat gave him the green light to shoot. hes been shooting very efficiently the past several months, rebounding and passing really well with a sprinkle of blocks and steals. this version of JJ could have easily been our starting PF and at such a low price.

No way they give away Ibaka. Gave away good chunk of their future for him.

well..what else can they do with him? you think ibaka is going to resign with the current 16-22 magic?

[tDotted]

yeah hes been shooting the 3 ball really well! i don't care if the heat gave him the green light to shoot. hes been shooting very efficiently the past several months, rebounding and passing really well with a sprinkle of blocks and steals. this version of JJ could have easily been our starting PF and at such a low price.

He's been great for me in fantasy ball

well..what else can they do with him? you think ibaka is going to resign with the current 16-22 magic?

Hey not saying it's a good idea. He's definitely not resigning. I just think they invested so much so recently that they'll ride out until the end of the season and hope to make a good pitch. For pride's sake I guess.

[Lupe]

With so many teams jumping at Millsap, the price is likely to be inflated. I wonder if we shouldn't wait it out, and make a move at Ibaka later in the season when the Magic ultimately start "listening to offers"? I'd really still prefer him over Millsap anyway.

See Ibaka is interesting to me because in that case I absolutely would not include JV in that trade. I wouldn't move Patterson either.

Because Ibaka isn't really a great scoring option, JV's usefulness as that 3rd scorer remains (while it would be diminished with Millsap) AND if you keep 2Pat you can go to 2Pat-Ibaka in the frontcourt when Golden State or Cleveland goes small.

Also I'd be less worried about giving Ibaka a 5 year deal. He's only 27, so about the same age as DeMar, despite the annoying accusations that he's 30+ because people think damn near every African player is lying about their age.

EDIT: I think the Magic would be very interested in both Ross and Cory Joseph. Ross, because they are one of the worst shooting teams in the league, and that would change very quickly with Ross and Fournier sharing the wings. Also their PG situation has not been working out with Elfrid Payton not ready and also being a terrible shooter and DJ Augustin being poor defensively. You could toss in Poeltl or Bebe and a pick as well to sweeten the deal.

[3inthekeon]

The heat are flaming trash right now, thus JJ has a green light just like everyone else on the Heat roster to fire away.
That said, I'm not surprised he's playing well, dude has always had a ton of talent. Would have loved for him to stick around, but clearly him and Casey didn't agree on something.

Not saying JJ was perfectly utilized and arguably underutilized, but in defense of Casey, JJ with the Raptors was what he had always been.

Here's a Chad Ford comment on his play at Wake Forest in 2009:

He reminds me a little of Chicago's Tyrus Thomas in one way -- he'll play great one minute and have his coach pulling his hair out the next.

7 years in the league and that was still JJ. Great man defender, not so great team defender. Career .266 from 3. In his 2 years with us, .265 from 3, We had spacing issues without him, and he just exacerbated that problem. Don't think anyone would have bet actual money on him shooting .385 from beyond the arc with a career high in attempts already.

That said, he was the best passing big we've had since ????( cant think of anyone better,) And Miami (this year especially) may have been the best situation as you mentioned, with the freedom and playing time. Plus Spoelstra seems to be a bit of a rehabilitation artist, as he showed with Whiteside. Doesn't work with every player though. Derrick Williams got more money from the Heat than JJ this past offseason and even with all the issues the Heat have, is getting more DNP-CD's than playing time.

[3inthekeon]

See Ibaka is interesting to me because in that case I absolutely would not include JV in that trade. I wouldn't move Patterson either.

Because Ibaka isn't really a great scoring option, JV's usefulness as that 3rd scorer remains (while it would be diminished with Millsap) AND if you keep 2Pat you can go to 2Pat-Ibaka in the frontcourt when Golden State or Cleveland goes small.

Also I'd be less worried about giving Ibaka a 5 year deal. He's only 27, so about the same age as DeMar, despite the annoying accusations that he's 30+ because people think damn near every African player is lying about their age.

EDIT: I think the Magic would be very interested in both Ross and Cory Joseph. Ross, because they are one of the worst shooting teams in the league, and that would change very quickly with Ross and Fournier sharing the wings. Also their PG situation has not been working out with Elfrid Payton not ready and also being a terrible shooter and DJ Augustin being poor defensively. You could toss in Poeltl or Bebe and a pick as well to sweeten the deal.

Wow, that's a lot to give up for Ibaka. Is he really THAT good?

[Lupe]

Here's my thing with the Millsap trade.

Atm it seems there are 2 options that people here are looking at.

Group A: A deal centered around Ross+2Pat + prospects/picks
Group B: A deal centered around Valanciunas and CoJo + prospects/picks flipped for Noel

The first deal leaves you with this:

Starters: Lowry/DeMar/Carroll/Millsap/Valanciunas
Bench: CoJo/Powell/Sullinger/Bebe

To me this is a really serious problem. First of all you have zero shooting coming off the bench. Yeah you strengthened the starting lineup for sure but now you've removed the two best shooters on the bench (Patterson, Ross) and are hoping that Powell (and I suppose Millsap) can replicate that. Powell only takes about half the volume of Ross and mainly uncontested threes, he's not a replacement for what Terrence does on the team, and Millsap is simply just not a great three point shooter. He'll pull a defender out there a bit granted, but he's not going to actually make them better.

Plus then you've torpedoed the Lowry+Bench lineup and are hoping that CoJo-Lowry-Powell-Sullinger-Bebe or in some cases CoJo-Lowry-Powell-Millsap-Bebe is going to produce the same effect when both of those lineups have nowhere near the spacing and a lot of moving parts from what we're used to. It is a death sentence.

Now let's look at what happens with the 2nd option:

Starters: Lowry/DeRozan/Carroll/Millsap/Noel
Bench: Powell/Ross/Patterson/Sullinger

In this deal you still have two great shooters coming off the bench. You replace CoJo's minutes with Powell who is a better defender, better shooter and more athletic than Joseph is. He'd be sharing backcourts with Lowry and DeRozan so basically playing a combo guard role like CoJo and you'd be able to maximize his impact on defense because he'd be guarding guys his size and not small forwards half the time. All you change in the Lowry+Bench lineup is replacing the two worst players in it - CoJo and Bebe - for better players Powell and Sullinger. You can still roll out Lowry/Powell/Ross/Patterson/Sullinger(Bebe). You preserve all the shooting you have off the bench, in fact the bench gets better at shooting with Powell taking CoJo's minutes.

As for the starters in this case, yes you lose some on the glass and offensively at center but that's made up for the fact that Millsap is a way better rebounder and offensive player than Siakam. You get much, much better defensively and I'd argue that starting lineup is just as good as the one with JV in it if not better.

Seems like a no brainer to me that if you can deal JV for Millsap (I cannot see why Atlanta would reject that trade, the Dwight thing is irrelevant if they're rebuilding) and move CoJo+prospect(s)+pick(s) for Noel or some other defensive center it results in a much better and deeper team than the Ross+2Pat base option.

[KHD]

starting to think the idiot Kings are going to make a dumbass offer for millsap the way orlando did for ibaka.

[KHD]

For everyone who thinks there's only one way to win these days, memphis just came back against GSW. Gasol and Randolph both played 35+ minutes.

Golden state has lost now to memphis twice and to the spurs, both of whom play "lumbering" bigs. So lets stop with the BS notion that only superhuman athletic centers can survive. Perimeter defence matters.