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  • I think the biggest reason for Ibaka decline is that he's not 27 he's 31 or 32 and I'm not even joking a little bit
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • Iirc Jeanie buss wants to win asap. Their pick becomes unprotected next yr. I think they'd prefer to grow and finish with the best record possible and be done with it. There's a lot of pgs at the top of this draft so I suppose it depends on how they feel about Russell. Issac and Tatum play same position as ingram. I could see giles there but hes not top 3 anymore but order will shift a lot still. There's more forwards projected next yr and I'd assume they'd want to get a center prospect next to randle, with zubac as backup long term. They do have Nance backing up randle and he's not bad short term, if they moved randle. I'd assume they'd rather move Russell bc he's immature and doesn't look like he will become a world beater imo. I think I remember reading some debate of randle vs Nance but I didn't pay much mind.
      Tbh, I don't follow the Lakers so I have a limited perspective. You could post/read on silver screen and roll.

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      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
        Do you think part of the statistical decline for Ibalka was due to him not seeing much of the ball in OKC in his last couple years as both KD and Russell... well maybe mostly Russell dominated all the possesions in OKC ... ?
        If so, that's a terrible sign for him coming here, to a basically identical situation.

        But I think if that is part of it, it is only part of it. It surely doesn't explain his defensive stats all plummeting over the past half decade.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • lewro wrote: View Post
          Iirc Jeanie buss wants to win asap. Their pick becomes unprotected next yr. I think they'd prefer to grow and finish with the best record possible and be done with it. There's a lot of pgs at the top of this draft so I suppose it depends on how they feel about Russell. Issac and Tatum play same position as ingram. I could see giles there but hes not top 3 anymore but order will shift a lot still. There's more forwards projected next yr and I'd assume they'd want to get a center prospect next to randle, with zubac as backup long term. They do have Nance backing up randle and he's not bad short term, if they moved randle. I'd assume they'd rather move Russell bc he's immature and doesn't look like he will become a world beater imo. I think I remember reading some debate of randle vs Nance but I didn't pay much mind.
          Tbh, I don't follow the Lakers so I have a limited perspective. You could post/read on silver screen and roll.
          I could see them moving Nance first because Randle is more versatile but guess its all about what's being offered. I really don't think they would get a lot for Russell because he is so damn immature. I suspect they'll draft Tatum if he's available n he could very easily be a PF in today's NBA since he's 6'9-6'10. I think their dream pick though will be Lonzo Ball because he'll make Walton's poor man Warriors offence hum n let Russell become more a scorer than facilitator which he prefers anyways despite his ability to pass.

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          • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
            Anyone think the Lakers trade Randle this year ?

            They have a pick but its protected 1 to 3... however...the Lakers since the beginning of December have gone 5 and 18. Thats Nets bad. They currently sit 7th from the botton with only Timberpuppies, Suns and Dallas to "pass" on their way to battle it out for 3rd last with Philly and the Heat..

            Trading Randle would help the Laker uber tank if thats what they are going to do.....
            Young PF under team control for 2 more years....

            Yes / No / Maybe... ?
            If they want to tank, trading Sweet Lou and/or Swaggy P would make more sense, no?
            If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              If so, that's a terrible sign for him coming here, to a basically identical situation.

              But I think if that is part of it, it is only part of it. It surely doesn't explain his defensive stats all plummeting over the past half decade.
              Even leaving all that aside, does a 100% Ibaka move the needle all that much? He's obviously better than Siakam but is he that much better than an 85% Sullinger and Patterson? And, assuming he is, is the difference material? I'm not so sure. Frankly, I preferred the Sullinger signing to an Ibaka trade this offseason and I still feel the same way. I even prefer running Carroll out there at the PF-spot than trading a bunch of assets for Ibaka.

              I know at the trade deadline it's often about smaller moves to fill holes but, honestly, among Ross, Joseph, Powell, Carroll, JV, Patterson, this team already has a pile of decent role players. I just see guys like Ibaka as another one of those players.

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              • slaw wrote: View Post
                Even leaving all that aside, does a 100% Ibaka move the needle all that much? He's obviously better than Siakam but is he that much better than an 85% Sullinger and Patterson? And, assuming he is, is the difference material? I'm not so sure. Frankly, I preferred the Sullinger signing to an Ibaka trade this offseason and I still feel the same way. I even prefer running Carroll out there at the PF-spot than trading a bunch of assets for Ibaka.

                I know at the trade deadline it's often about smaller moves to fill holes but, honestly, among Ross, Joseph, Powell, Carroll, JV, Patterson, this team already has a pile of decent role players. I just see guys like Ibaka as another one of those players.
                Ibaka of like 5 years ago would have been that big upgrade. I'm not convinced he is anymore.

                I agree that the team would not really benefit from making changes around the edges. Make a big move for a star (Ibaka is not that, as far as I can tell) or don't make a move. There's not really a position where we lack even a decent role player. You could argue backup PF, but I think Sully is more than capable of that, and next year Siakam/Poeltl should be able to fill those minutes consistently.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                  Anyone think the Lakers trade Randle this year ?

                  They have a pick but its protected 1 to 3... however...the Lakers since the beginning of December have gone 5 and 18. Thats Nets bad. They currently sit 7th from the botton with only Timberpuppies, Suns and Dallas to "pass" on their way to battle it out for 3rd last with Philly and the Heat..

                  Trading Randle would help the Laker uber tank if thats what they are going to do.....
                  Young PF under team control for 2 more years....

                  Yes / No / Maybe... ?
                  Highly unlikely (trading Randle, IMO). Way too risky.
                  Trade Randle, tank & finish with 4th pick which goes to Philly =Disaster.

                  Comment


                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    If so, that's a terrible sign for him coming here, to a basically identical situation.

                    But I think if that is part of it, it is only part of it. It surely doesn't explain his defensive stats all plummeting over the past half decade.
                    There are no stats or analytics to quantify this.. but.. if you have ever had to play a season or so on a line with a puck hog who is actively encouraged to be that... your desire to bust your ass on offense or defense wanes after a while.

                    It'd be a gamble on Serge and the price paid should reflect that... but from my cheap seat that may have been the cause of the falloff on defense and offense in OKC. Having to play 3rd or even 4th fiddle behind Russ and KD and Kanter who has never seen a shot that he thinks he can't make.
                    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Fri Jan 13, 2017, 02:19 PM.

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                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                      There are no stats or analytics to quantify this.. but.. if you have ever had to play a season or so on a line with a puck hog who is actively encouraged to be that... your desire to bust your ass on offense or defense wanes after a while.

                      It'd be a gamble on Serge and the price paid should reflect that... but from my cheap seat that may have been the cause of the falloff on defense and offense in OKC. Having to play 3rd or even 4th fiddle behind Russ and KD and Kanter who has never seen a shot that he thinks he can't make.
                      Yeah, but that's the point. In no universe will Ibaka end up as a second option or higher here with DD and Lowry. He'll be relegated to that 3rd slot, possibly sharing it with JV. Meaning he'll be in exactly that situation here. So why would we expect his defence or offence to suddenly get better again (as a note, his defence is still looking pretty bad in ORL in spite of him being a primary option for them)?
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Ibaka seems like a huge risk - he comes with all the uncertainty of Millsap, and also a multi-season decline on both ends of the floor (with a bit of a bounce back this season offensively).

                        If we are going after him, we'd better spam the heck out of a Patterson starting lineup first to see for sure what we have, because there's every possibility that Ibaka would not represent an upgrade at all.
                        An Ibaka acquisition wouldn't just be to strengthen the team at the 4 but also to have a legitimately mobile and elite defensive option at the 5 who can guard the perimeter and not be a liability on the offensive end either. 2Pat-Ibaka frontcourt could be key to handling some of the Cavs LeBron at 4 lineups defensively while still being able to hang with them on the offensive end and have effective spacing. That's something that neither JV nor Sullinger can do for us.

                        KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        I think the biggest reason for Ibaka decline is that he's not 27 he's 31 or 32 and I'm not even joking a little bit
                        Other than Ibaka being born in Africa what is this based off of? Because no one would be saying that if he was a white guy born in Spain.

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                        • Lupe wrote: View Post
                          An Ibaka acquisition wouldn't just be to strengthen the team at the 4 but also to have a legitimately mobile and elite defensive option at the 5 who can guard the perimeter and not be a liability on the offensive end either. 2Pat-Ibaka frontcourt could be key to handling some of the Cavs LeBron at 4 lineups defensively while still being able to hang with them on the offensive end and have effective spacing. That's something that neither JV nor Sullinger can do for us.



                          Other than Ibaka being born in Africa what is this based off of? Because no one would be saying that if he was a white guy born in Spain.
                          Again, it's been a very long time since Ibaka has graded out by any metric as an elite defensive option.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Lupe wrote: View Post
                            An Ibaka acquisition wouldn't just be to strengthen the team at the 4 but also to have a legitimately mobile and elite defensive option at the 5 who can guard the perimeter and not be a liability on the offensive end either. 2Pat-Ibaka frontcourt could be key to handling some of the Cavs LeBron at 4 lineups defensively while still being able to hang with them on the offensive end and have effective spacing. That's something that neither JV nor Sullinger can do for us.



                            Other than Ibaka being born in Africa what is this based off of? Because no one would be saying that if he was a white guy born in Spain.
                            I dunno, maybe the fact he started losing athleticism at age 25

                            And there was age controversy with Ilyasova and that stiff from China who's name I can't recall so don't play the race card
                            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                            • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              I dunno, maybe the fact he started losing athleticism at age 25

                              And there was age controversy with Ilyasova and that stiff from China who's name I can't recall so don't play the race card
                              It's not a race thing at all. I'm not playing cards, I'm talking basketball... this isn't a casino. People don't really question the ages of black American players or even black players born in Europe. It's the ones who are born in Africa that people start accusing of lying about their ages. It's aggravating frankly as someone who was born there.

                              Ibaka's regression has more to do with an increased role for Kanter and Adams as well as him being pulled further and further away from the basket, marginalizing his abilities somewhat on both ends of the floor than some baseless accusation of him being 5 years older than his listed age.

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                              • Lupe wrote: View Post
                                It's not a race thing at all. I'm not playing cards, I'm talking basketball... this isn't a casino. People don't really question the ages of black American players or even black players born in Europe. It's the ones who are born in Africa that people start accusing of lying about their ages. It's aggravating frankly as someone who was born there.

                                Ibaka's regression has more to do with an increased role for Kanter and Adams as well as him being pulled further and further away from the basket, marginalizing his abilities somewhat on both ends of the floor than some baseless accusation of him being 5 years older than his listed age.
                                There's a reason why people suspect players born in Africa of maybe not being the age they claim, because the record keeping in some of those countries is suspect. Not all of them, and people tend to generalize, but no one makes those claims about players from America because they have birth certificates and records on file to prove their age, while some players from Africa don't. Not all, not even most, but it was a very real concern for GM's in a couple of drafts (I believe Maker and Biyombo both faced these questions, maybe another player too that I can't think of right now), and that legitimizes for many the thought process.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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