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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    There's a reason why people suspect players born in Africa of maybe not being the age they claim, because the record keeping in some of those countries is suspect. Not all of them, and people tend to generalize, but no one makes those claims about players from America because they have birth certificates and records on file to prove their age, while some players from Africa don't. Not all, not even most, but it was a very real concern for GM's in a couple of drafts (I believe Maker and Biyombo both faced these questions, maybe another player too that I can't think of right now), and that legitimizes for many the thought process.
    Can confirm that my brother in law is from Zimbabwe and it was a struggle for him and his siblings to immigrate they had no birth certificates
    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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    • Can confirm the same for someone in my entourage that is from Mali. It's just a fact.

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      • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
        Maybe we could get a first round draft pick out of that deal too. 2017?
        Is that a joke? You do realize Brooklyn has no draft picks to trade, no?

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        • Can confirm

          know Maker from Orangeville Prep. He's not 19, that's really how old his younger brother Matur is.
          However Thon isnt much older than 19, he's still pretty young

          Also just look at Biz

          Rookie Biz "19 years old"


          BiZ last year, age 23



          Biz looks about 22 as a Rookie and 29 now
          Abbas wrote:

          First of all i was my own source

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          • So we're really going to do this. Post pictures of players and just make wild assumptions about their ages? Cool.

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            • Lupe wrote: View Post
              So we're really going to do this. Post pictures of players and just make wild assumptions about their ages? Cool.
              Yeah that's a little silly.

              But it's also fact that legit birth certificates can't be had in certain areas of the world.

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              • Biyombo had a bone scan done when he was 17 that showed he could be no older than 18. There's no evidence that he's older than he says he is, just baseless accusations because people aren't as used to seeing African born people and think they look older than they are.

                God forbid we don't acquire a player who can help our team significantly because we think he's in his 30s not mid-late 20s since he's from the Congo.

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                • Lupe wrote: View Post
                  Biyombo had a bone scan done when he was 17 that showed he could be no older than 18. There's no evidence that he's older than he says he is, just baseless accusations because people aren't as used to seeing African born people and think they look older than they are.

                  God forbid we don't acquire a player who can help our team significantly because we think he's in his 30s not mid-late 20s since he's from the Congo.
                  if you believe that biyombo's agent lied about his age, which many do, then it's not a big stretch to think that x-ray could have been of someone's wrist.

                  it's not a "since he's from the congo" thing, it's a question of medical record-keeping and a question of what motivates an agent.

                  For me, whether Ibaka is 27 or 31, the fact is that he's showing considerable decline over the past several years, not just on offence but more importantly and more alarmingly on defence and seemingly physically. Pair that with the fact that orlando gave up a lot to get him, and I don't think we're going to be the ones to give Orlando a big offer for him.

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                  • Lupe wrote: View Post
                    Biyombo had a bone scan done when he was 17 that showed he could be no older than 18. There's no evidence that he's older than he says he is, just baseless accusations because people aren't as used to seeing African born people and think they look older than they are.

                    God forbid we don't acquire a player who can help our team significantly because we think he's in his 30s not mid-late 20s since he's from the Congo.
                    Can you please clarify for me how a bone scan will determine age?

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                    • KHD wrote: View Post
                      if you believe that biyombo's agent lied about his age, which many do, then it's not a big stretch to think that x-ray could have been of someone's wrist.

                      it's not a "since he's from the congo" thing, it's a question of medical record-keeping and a question of what motivates an agent.

                      For me, whether Ibaka is 27 or 31, the fact is that he's showing considerable decline over the past several years, not just on offence but more importantly and more alarmingly on defence and seemingly physically. Pair that with the fact that orlando gave up a lot to get him, and I don't think we're going to be the ones to give Orlando a big offer for him.
                      I was in Uganda this past year close to Congo border and had a lengthy discussion with a German UN worker who spent 6 months working in Congo. Records? Birth certificates? Good luck ...most Congolese worried re safety and next meal. If you have money you could get any 'record' that you want but whether it will be accurate or not is anyone's guest. You have to pay someone off to leave period.

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                      • psrs1 wrote: View Post
                        Can you please clarify for me how a bone scan will determine age?
                        basically the cartilaginous parts of bones (the "growth plates") will calcify as your growth slows down and stops. cartilage and calcified bone look different on an x-ray, so you can look at an x-ray and see how the calcification of an individuals' bones compares against the population at large.

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                        • KHD wrote: View Post
                          basically the cartilaginous parts of bones (the "growth plates") will calcify as your growth slows down and stops. cartilage and calcified bone look different on an x-ray, so you can look at an x-ray and see how the calcification of an individuals' bones compares against the population at large.
                          So the growth plates on an X-ray would be closed but how will how would a bone scan help in this regard? You won't see growth plates only inflammation if present on a bone scan. Additionally if you use population based standardized distributions you would only come up with a 95 percentile range for estimated age . I.e. Someone could have a range of 15-19 so you still truly don't know actual age only a possible range.

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                          • psrs1 wrote: View Post
                            So the growth plates on an X-ray would be closed but how will how would a bone scan help in this regard? You won't see growth plates only inflammation if present on a bone scan. Additionally if you use population based standardized distributions you would only come up with a 95 percentile range for estimated age . I.e. Someone could have a range of 15-19 so you still truly don't know actual age only a possible range.
                            i think Lupe said "bone scan" when he meant x-ray. as far as i know they x-rayed his hand and wrist, they didn't give him a nuc med bone scan (which, yes, wouldn't tell you about his age).

                            and yeah the "bone age" measurements are done by atlas comparisons. it's not like counting rings in a tree.
                            Last edited by KHD; Sat Jan 14, 2017, 10:34 AM.

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                            • It's Ibaka's defense that has me worried more than his offense. I like that he can play the 5 so he's more versatile than Millsap would have been. But I really do think that Orlando will hold on to him and try to keep him in the summer. When you trade away a guy like Oladipo for him.. your intention is to do whatever it takes to keep him. They'll probably throw a max contract his way in the summer. Perhaps Ibaka just wants his cake.

                              It feels less and less likely that we'll end up with an all-star caliber PF via trade this year or even this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up resigning 2Pat and then use the mid-level to bring a veteran in via free agency. Maybe Amir would take that to play in Toronto again?

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                                It's Ibaka's defense that has me worried more than his offense. I like that he can play the 5 so he's more versatile than Millsap would have been. But I really do think that Orlando will hold on to him and try to keep him in the summer. When you trade away a guy like Oladipo for him.. your intention is to do whatever it takes to keep him. They'll probably throw a max contract his way in the summer. Perhaps Ibaka just wants his cake.

                                It feels less and less likely that we'll end up with an all-star caliber PF via trade this year or even this summer. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up resigning 2Pat and then use the mid-level to bring a veteran in via free agency. Maybe Amir would take that to play in Toronto again?
                                Well it'll be really unfortunate if the latter happens. I know teams have to be willing to sell for us to buy but goddamn it'd be frustrating to just keep rolling with a team that we know is not good enough to beat or even come remotely close to challenging Cleveland. Not sure how many of you guys heard, but apparently Scola said to a reporter before game 6 against Cleveland (I can't remember who it was) that he didn't think Cleveland took us seriously in games 3 and 4 and that game 6 would be tougher because they would really try; and they ended up blowing us out of the fucking building.

                                Without an upgrade we are minnows compared to Cleveland with a 0% chance of beating them when healthy. Yes, zero. With an upgrade we might have a 5% chance, which granted is not great (and I'm also just pulling that number out of my ass, but I think you get the point I'm trying to make) but is still some chance.

                                Like honestly right now we're relying on Sullinger coming back and being some type of saviour off the bench and rearranging when 2Pat plays his minutes to somehow make a big difference for us. Unfortunately neither of those two things are going to have much of a impact at all.

                                Just makes the question really tough in the offseason with Lowry. On two fronts.

                                1.) Are we really capable of contending? If we come off a round 2 loss to Boston in 7 or another beatdown from Cleveland, would it really be wise to invest some much in a Lowry-centric future when we're not making the necessary moves to contend? And again, we would have used our draft picks so the value found in the uncertainty/variability of a pick vs. the relative known of a prospect would be diminished so we'd have even less in terms of trade assets.

                                2.) Would Lowry even want to come back? This is a real question that people need to start considering, because if I'm Lowry and this team does no better this year than last I'm having my agent call RC Buford over in San Antonio and figuring out how I can replace Tony Parker as the starter for the Spurs. And San Antonio will reportedly be interested in him (they don't have enough cap space as it stands to outright sign him but it wouldn't be difficult to clear). Obviously I think for financial reasons it's most likely Lowry wants to come back but by no means is it a given.

                                If we're really not going to or able to make a swing for the fences I think we should seriously consider a rebuild or re-tool in the summer and start looking at post-Lowry and likely post-DeRozan as well. Although that will likely be bleak also because we don't really have any elite prospects right now.

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