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  • Jon32 wrote: View Post
    Why
    Math for one. Ross for Favors straight works

    Giving away too much for two. Raptors are in a position of strength. Why would they give away their 6th man and a top 10 draft pick, plus a draft pick in a deep draft for a solid player who does't stretch the floor.

    For three, how does that resolve Utah's needs? The last thing they need is ANOTHER Center.

    Comment


    • Poeltl doesn't have the value of a top 10 pick because:

      1.) The pick has already been used
      2.) He hasn't played and has shown nothing
      3.) He wasn't a high ceiling project in the first place, was meant to be relatively NBA ready.

      Comment


      • Lupe wrote: View Post
        Poeltl doesn't have the value of a top 10 pick because:

        1.) The pick has already been used
        2.) He hasn't played and has shown nothing
        3.) He wasn't a high ceiling project in the first place, was meant to be relatively NBA ready.
        His value is dependent on the team. There are certainly teams for which he'd have the value of a lotto pick, if they would have taken him last season if given the chance. There are surely teams for which he would not have that value. In the post above, we are discussing cost for the Raps, and for them he is clearly worth a top 10 pick, as they used one on him.

        That said, I'd definitely do that deal for Favors. That's way too much talent to be shying away from prospect cost in a deal.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

        Comment


        • Just messing around with the Melo trade rumors but:

          To Toronto:
          Nerlens Noel
          Blake Griffin

          To New York:
          Jonas Valanciunas
          B. Johnson (no clue what his first name is from trade machine lol)
          Delon Wright

          To Philadelphia:
          Corey Joseph
          Alan Anderson
          Raptors 2017 1st

          To Clippers:
          Carmelo Anthony
          Clippers 2017 1st

          Lowry/Powell
          DeMar/Ross
          Carroll/Ross
          Griffin/Patterson
          Noel/Sullinger

          Comment


          • Lupe wrote: View Post
            Just messing around with the Melo trade rumors but:

            To Toronto:
            Nerlens Noel
            Blake Griffin

            To New York:
            Jonas Valanciunas
            B. Johnson (no clue what his first name is from trade machine lol)
            Delon Wright

            To Philadelphia:
            Corey Joseph
            Alan Anderson
            Raptors 2017 1st

            To Clippers:
            Carmelo Anthony
            Clippers 2017 1st

            Lowry/Powell
            DeMar/Ross
            Carroll/Ross
            Griffin/Patterson
            Noel/Sullinger
            and then 3/5 of our starting 5 asks for huge contracts this summer after we have hardly really seen them play together.

            The raptors are a good team with some assets that should last them a good amount of time. they're not going to make a ridiculous deal like this. If they make a trade it'd be to fit a core of lowry, derozan and JV (e.g. millsap).

            Comment


            • KHD wrote: View Post
              and then 3/5 of our starting 5 asks for huge contracts this summer after we have hardly really seen them play together.

              The raptors are a good team with some assets that should last them a good amount of time. they're not going to make a ridiculous deal like this. If they make a trade it'd be to fit a core of lowry, derozan and JV (e.g. millsap).
              I don't consider JV to be an integral part of the core and view him as trade-able with Lowry and DeMar as the core of the team. So with my trade I'd be enhancing the core without altering it while still hanging onto pieces like 2Pat, Powell and Ross. Blake Griffin is one of the best players in the league so there's the 3rd star for DD and Klow to work with.

              I don't really think the trade would happen (it's impossible to predict a 4 team trade) but it'd definitely upgrade our ceiling with Griffin being around the same age DeMar so in his prime at the same time.

              This would of course all be assuming we've sat and talked with Blake and he's shown a desire to re-sign in the offseason.

              MLSE has a lot of money and is willing to spend for the right team unless you guys think Masai was lying when he said as much. It's not that hard to pitch going into the tax for 3 star players.
              Last edited by Lupe; Mon Jan 16, 2017, 09:51 AM.

              Comment


              • Lupe wrote: View Post
                I don't consider JV to be an integral part of the core and view him as trade-able with Lowry and DeMar as the core of the team. So with my trade I'd be enhancing the core without altering it while still hanging onto pieces like 2Pat, Powell and Ross. Blake Griffin is one of the best players in the league so there's the 3rd star for DD and Klow to work with.

                I don't really think the trade would happen (it's impossible to predict a 4 team trade) but it'd definitely upgrade our ceiling with Griffin being around the same age DeMar so in his prime at the same time.

                This would of course all be assuming we've sat and talked with Blake and he's shown a desire to re-sign in the offseason.

                MLSE has a lot of money and is willing to spend for the right team unless you guys think Masai was lying when he said as much. It's not that hard to pitch going into the tax for 3 star players.
                Why on earth would the Knicks rope us into the deal? They'd ask for Griffin themselves, no matter the fit or risk with free agency.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • Masai is not trading JV for Noel.

                  Comment


                  • DanH wrote: View Post

                    That said, I'd definitely do that deal for Favors. That's way too much talent to be shying away from prospect cost in a deal.
                    Why? I really don't see the need right now to lose Ross, Poeltl and our 1st to get a guy who's been nothing but his former self this season.

                    Comment


                    • planetmars wrote: View Post
                      Masai is not trading JV for Noel.
                      It wasn't a JV for Noel trade it was a JV+More for Noel and Blake Griffin trade.

                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      Why on earth would the Knicks rope us into the deal? They'd ask for Griffin themselves, no matter the fit or risk with free agency.
                      Didn't say they would, was just an idea. I even said it probably would never happen.

                      charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                      Why? I really don't see the need right now to lose Ross, Poeltl and our 1st to get a guy who's been nothing but his former self this season.
                      I'd take Favors for that deal tbh. Utah's souring on him a bit because he and Gobert do a lot of the same things well and neither can really shoot that much from outside. But if we were to get the Favors of the past 3-4 years before this year that'd be great. Elite defensive PF and can slide over to center when we need more mobility there against Cleveland and others.

                      Comment


                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Why on earth would the Knicks rope us into the deal? They'd ask for Griffin themselves, no matter the fit or risk with free agency.
                        I don't understand why the Clips be trading for Melo and giving up Griffin? Wouldn't the whole point be to add Melo to the team that they have? And, leaving that aside, why would anyone trade Griffin for Melo? That's insane.

                        Comment


                        • slaw wrote: View Post
                          I don't understand why the Clips be trading for Melo and giving up Griffin? Wouldn't the whole point be to add Melo to the team that they have? And, leaving that aside, why would anyone trade Griffin for Melo? That's insane.
                          because it helped Lupe come up with a way to trade valanciunas.

                          Comment


                          • Brice Johnson is b.johnson. there was some interest to draft him at 27th last yr.

                            I think mlse will go into the tax but probably not 30m+ over unless it's lebron.

                            Favors is trending more toward 5.. That's not a great fit unless we're moving jv. I think Utah would rather package him for a star like favors + hood + 1st for demar. However, they might need to shed his salary to resign Hayward and hill so he might get moved this summer. Defensively, I'd like a favors/noel pairing. Both are kinda tweeners that allow switching. Hopefully favors could extend his range. Favors would demand big money the next yr tho. For all the money we save on jv and Ross, we are blowing it on Carroll.

                            Haven't had time to watch the games recently but nice to read that jv and Carroll are playing better.

                            Comment


                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              I don't understand why the Clips be trading for Melo and giving up Griffin? Wouldn't the whole point be to add Melo to the team that they have? And, leaving that aside, why would anyone trade Griffin for Melo? That's insane.
                              I could see the Clippers making a Melo for Griffin trade for a few reasons. One, Blake is a free agent and not necessarily guaranteed to re-sign. Two, Chris Paul and Melo have a great relationship and are part of the banana-boat quartet and I think if a move was on the table he'd push for it. Three, the Clippers don't really have an isolation scorer who they can go to in crunch time. This is something Melo is still very good at. CP3 can't do it all the time because he's too small and Blake just due to the nature of his game can't be relied on to create a bucket in those situations.

                              I think my trade might've made a bit more sense overall though if I also had Patterson going to LAC which would give them a floor spacer at the 4. But still it's kind of just a dream scenario since I doubt the Knicks would necessarily want to parlay Blake to a third team. Although a rebuild around JV and Porz and some other prospects might be enticing to Phil who knows what's going on in that guy's head.

                              KHD wrote: View Post
                              because it helped Lupe come up with a way to trade valanciunas.
                              I've proposed trades here that don't involve moving JV and I've said if we were to acquire guys like Ibaka or Favors who aren't great offensive weapons who'll demand a lot of usage, but can also play the 5 when we need mobility, then moving JV is unnecessary.

                              As for acquiring someone like Blake Griffin (and Millsap to a lesser extent), yes I would include JV in that trade. People are already complaining about a lack of touches for him. Blake is a major offensive weapon who's going to command ~25% usage and is also capable of running the pick and roll very effectively and being a triple threat with his rolling ability, mid-range game and passing (only better passing bigs are Green and Gasol). He can also compensate for what we lose in rebounding with JV gone as back when he didn't have DeAndre next to him, his TRB% wasn't far off from what JV's are now. As such JV would become very redundant which is why having someone like Nerlens next to Blake instead who's just going to be in there for defense and finishing lobs and gimmes inside makes sense.

                              I think JV currently is a problem at the end of games against small lineups that we cannot rectify because we don't have a player at the center position who is mobile defensively, not useless offensively and can actually rebound. Bebe does not fulfill the last requirement, Sullinger does not fulfill the first and he may not even get into game shape this year much like Carroll last season (except Carroll actually has a healthier lifestyle than Sullinger so it may take even longer). I am not saying he needs to be traded. But if we can fix that problem while also not taking a hit offensively (in the case of bringing Griffin and Noel in we'd get better offensively) why wouldn't we do that?

                              I'm getting tired of being accused of being on some crusade against JV. I actually like him, but again I think he presents some problems. The reality is we can't focus and maximize his offensive output in order to compensate for below-average defense that routinely gets exposed against quicker centers, centers who can shoot from outside and dribble and small-ball lineups. Casey wasn't making offense-defense subs with him and Biyombo last year for fun. Looking at the lineup numbers they actually made a lot of sense. If anything it's you guys just being against anything that moves JV off the roster. I don't care if he's here or not, I just want the team to get better.
                              Last edited by Lupe; Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:56 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Yeah, I also have proposed trading jv bc of fit, not bc I don't like him.
                                As Will Lou recently said on his pod, it's not a good idea to have Pat be the defensive anchor of the team, i'll add, especially since he might leave. Jv can rebound but we also need PNR and small ball D at the 5.
                                Gaining Millsap and keeping Pat would help a lot. Jv could get more touches in the 2nd unit and continue to help post defense and rebound in the 1st unit.
                                We have to consider more options tho bc Millsap remains a pipe dream. "Consider" being the operative word here. Not dumping or running jv out of town. He's a good player on a good contract but we need a 3rd star in the front court, particularly one that can defend. Ideally, I'd like deandre but that's even more of a pipe dream. Dj doesn't need the ball, he can rebound and defend. Giving deandre props doesn't mean jv is a bad player. Indeed, jv could avg 20-10 on another team, just not this team atm imo.
                                Value for money, Carroll has a bigger mountain to climb but he doesn't have trade value so jv gets targeted more.
                                At the end of the day we are not talented enough so you have to trade talent to get talent. Jv is "expandable" 😋 talent on this roster imo.
                                Imo the only player on our roster that deserves hate is bad Ross and he hasn't really shown up this yr.

                                Comment

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