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  • Triplethreat89 wrote: View Post
    Wtf... why is everyone hoping to trade cojo!?!?!? I know he hasn't been playing best recently but we need him!!
    No matter what happens we should not trade cojo before we trade Ross
    And we must trade Ross!!
    You also have to keep in mind luxury tax next year.
    Even if we make no trades at all and resign Lowry and Patterson at market rates we are likely close to $20 mill over the tax threshold.

    I'll defer to the cap geeks but having Delon as the back up point guard instead of COJO doesn't just save Joseph's 7.6 million salary. It could save another $24 million in luxury taxes next year. This is huge.
    In my view Joseph won't be a raptor next year. If something isn't done at the deadline he will be part of a draft day trade like the Vasquez deal a few years back.

    Comment


    • Which team would out bid us for ibaka?
      I haven't seen a better offer posted than Ross. If that's the case then I don't see a need to add a second player or a pick. I'm not all in on ibaka but Ross straight up is worth considering imo.
      Also, how much money is ibaka worth next yr. Anything north of 20m per and I'm walking. I think I'd rather keep pat at 15m or less.

      Comment


      • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
        Where are you getting this nonsense about Delon being a raw project?! lol

        He's more skilled than Corey. Outside of "ballhandling" (more like dribbling the air out of the ball) what is it that Corey can do that Delon can't?! The correct answer is nothing. Wright is super crafty with the ball, can dribble all over the court if he wanted to but instead he's a very good passer and looks to find the open man (vs predictably try to drive from CJ). He's bigger so he sees over the defence and makes the right read but also benefits him on the glass as he is a better rebounder than Corey and to top it off he is actually a great defender which with added height makes life tougher for the opposing guard.

        Really there is no justification for him not playing over Corey other than Casey won't play him and people mistake that for him not being ready which would have happened to Powell btw had Carroll not struggled with injuries. Heck Norm out plays the hell out of Carroll pretty much every game yet we've still seen for no valid reason Powell get NO playing time in some subsequent games following some very solid performances. It's not the player, it's the idiotic coach that values experience over results...

        I mean really what did Delon not show in the games he got minutes?!? These weren't D-League games, he was starting and these teams weren't tanking....they were playing to win!! He started and showed that he can keep the team competitive while ALSO putting up better stats than Corey...









        Not once did he look "raw", he actually plays solid and within himself much like a veteran....quite ironic really. So yeah not only would we be ok without Corey, I am convinced we would be better.
        Delon strikes me as the perfect Spur to be groomed...on & off the court.

        Comment


        • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
          How many point guards do you want?!
          Is CoJo good? Reasonably, yes.
          Is his ceiling as high as Delon's? No.
          this notion that delon is somehow better and has a higher ceiling than cojo needs to stop until delon can prove himself in legit NBA minutes

          They're the same age, and if your basing delons superiority on his D league stats. Compare them Josephs D leugue stats..

          Delon:
          17.7/6.5/5/1.6, 2.7 turnovers a game

          Cory:
          19.4/5.8/4.8/1.3, 2.6 turnovers a game

          Their stats are nearly identicle, only difference being delon was 24 at time, and corey was 21...
          I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

          Comment


          • yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
            this notion that delon is somehow better and has a higher ceiling than cojo needs to stop until delon can prove himself in legit NBA minutes

            They're the same age, and if your basing delons superiority on his D league stats. Compare them Josephs D leugue stats..

            Delon:
            17.7/6.5/5/1.6, 2.7 turnovers a game

            Cory:
            19.4/5.8/4.8/1.3, 2.6 turnovers a game

            Their stats are nearly identicle, only difference being delon was 24 at time, and corey was 21...
            He also played meaningful minutes on 2 50+ win teams leading up to and in the playoffs. Since his D-League stint at 21.

            I'm all for Cojo being part of a deal that improves the team, but the notion that Cojo is a bum and our ceiling goes up just by jettisoning him; is also getting out of hand.

            Comment


            • Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
              He also played meaningful minutes on 2 50+ win teams leading up to and in the playoffs. Since his D-League stint at 21.

              I'm all for Cojo being part of a deal that improves the team, but the notion that Cojo is a bum and our ceiling goes up just by jettisoning him; is also getting out of hand.
              I don't think it is out of hand.. this year he's been really bad. Offensively his numbers look about the same as last year, but defensively he's fallen off a cliff. Defensive stats are not perfect, but whenever I see him getting into the game, the opposing guard goes off, or we seem to just blow a huge lead.

              He's also the worst PG to play next to DD. Kyle can't play 48 minutes a night.

              I was skeptical of the signing last year, but learned to love it. His defensive tenacity was a joy to watch. He was arguably the 2nd/3rd best Raptor in the playoffs. And at the beginning of this year I was vocal about not trading him because of that.

              50 games have been played and he's not improving. He seems to be regressing. Is it an injury? Is it the system? Have teams scouted him and he can't change his game? I'm not sure exactly what it is but he's just been really bad. And Casey seems too stubborn to make a change. At least give Wright a little bit of an opportunity. If Casey is not going to change the lineup for even one game, then the best option would be to force his hand by trading him.

              Comment


              • Triplethreat89 wrote: View Post
                But man.. isn't delon another raw project??? I don't think we are gonna be better off without cojo in playoffs.
                I mean if you guys are thinking that long down the line why don't we trade kyle lowry too??
                Delon is 24, he is way past raw. We'd be worse off without Ross than CoJo. Ross is the one of the best shooters this team has, plus even Wright can dribble for 23 seconds before taking a shot.

                Comment


                • A.I wrote: View Post
                  Delon is 24, he is way past raw. We'd be worse off without Ross than CoJo. Ross is the one of the best shooters this team has, plus even Wright can dribble for 23 seconds before taking a shot.
                  I dream of a defensive unit of Wright, Lowry, Powell, Patterson, Bebe. That LENGTH (shoutout Matt Devlin), that bball IQ, that speed...scary grouping
                  It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                  Comment


                  • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                    Haven't been watching Orlando. Ibaka was looking rough earlier in the season. How's he looking now?
                    I don't watch too many teams other than Raptors.. so I can't really comment. He's putting up decent numbers though.. not the way he used to early on in his career.

                    Biggest worry I have is his potential max contract. He's not worth it at all. Not even close. But I'd rather have Ibaka then a combo of Carroll/Ross or Carroll/CoJo.

                    Comment


                    • yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                      this notion that delon is somehow better and has a higher ceiling than cojo needs to stop until delon can prove himself in legit NBA minutes

                      They're the same age, and if your basing delons superiority on his D league stats. Compare them Josephs D leugue stats..

                      Delon:
                      17.7/6.5/5/1.6, 2.7 turnovers a game

                      Cory:
                      19.4/5.8/4.8/1.3, 2.6 turnovers a game

                      Their stats are nearly identicle, only difference being delon was 24 at time, and corey was 21...
                      I'm not looking at numbers, I'm looking at how his skillset translates to how the Raps play.

                      Also, I never said that Delon was superior to CoJo. I said the Raps have 4 PGs, we know what Corey is, and he's a solid backup. We don't know what Delon is, but as others have pointed out, he already plays like a vet (always under control), sees the floor better than CoJo, and has the length to guard 1 to (smaller)3s. To me, those are indicators that he has a higher ceiling.

                      Tape is a better indicator than stats with this. On tape you see CoJo throw up those random floaters. On tape you see Delon seeking contact inside. On tape you see CoJo rarely pass when he penetrates. On tape you see Delon, head up, looking for that extra pass. I could go on, the way they run sets, for instance, but I digress.

                      I also indicated in my post, that I would rather trade Ross, but thought that people wanting to move CoJo made sense.

                      So, great job editing my post to fit your narrative #alternativefacts

                      Comment


                      • planetmars wrote: View Post
                        I don't watch too many teams other than Raptors.. so I can't really comment. He's putting up decent numbers though.. not the way he used to early on in his career.

                        Biggest worry I have is his potential max contract. He's not worth it at all. Not even close. But I'd rather have Ibaka then a combo of Carroll/Ross or Carroll/CoJo.
                        Not sure Ibaka will command a max contract. No one perceives him as a top 1-2 player on a contender and everyone seems to acknowledge he seems to be declining faster/earlier than you'd expect given his listed age. He'll for sure get a huge deal, but may be a good 5+ million per year less than the max (??).

                        I mean you also have to think he might not want to join a shit team even if they were willing to offer the max. Winning seems to be a priority for him at this stage in his career.

                        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

                        Comment


                        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          Not sure Ibaka will command a max contract. No one perceives him as a top 1-2 player on a contender and everyone seems to acknowledge he seems to be declining faster/earlier than you'd expect given his listed age. He'll for sure get a huge deal, but may be a good 5+ million per year less than the max (??).

                          I mean you also have to think he might not want to join a shit team even if they were willing to offer the max. Winning seems to be a priority for him at this stage in his career.

                          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                          Yeah, I'd have Ibaka pegged at between 25-30M starting salary. I imagine if the Raps offer a 5th year they can probably even undercut any competing offers by 1-2M.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

                          Comment


                          • rocwell wrote: View Post
                            We don't play defence this year or am I missing something? Also, if you watched any Orlando games, you'd know he looks lost on the D.

                            Ibaka's D is getting better in the FL though. I'll give him that.
                            That's what I mean. If we trade for anybody, he needs to be a defensive minded guy, like Ibaka. Even better would be 2-way guys like Milsap. Chandler looks more like an offensive player.

                            Still though, I think I see what you're saying. Anybody with any bit of offensive skill eventually forgets how to play D when they join the Raptors, so maybe we're better off going all out and getting a pure offense stud like Melo. The only guy who played defense consistently here was Biyombo, since that's pretty much all he could do and he was desperate for minutes.

                            Comment


                            • blackjitsu wrote: View Post

                              So, great job editing my post to fit your narrative #alternativefacts
                              What ??

                              You said delon has a higher ceiling than cojo. And I explained why he doesnt.
                              I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

                              Comment


                              • Some great tidbits here from the Magic GM.

                                If Jimmy Butler is available I would honestly throw the kitchen sink at the Bulls to get him. He fits this team to a T. Clutch, tough, amazing two-way player who could give fits to any star wing.

                                With the Bulls sniffing around after Okafor, we could sneak in and offer a much better player in Jonas, add Poeltl/Powell/picks.

                                Comment

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