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  • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
    Right so irregardless in a little thing called reality were still suggesting to fill 3-4 roster spots with $117M designated to the starting lineup considering the second highest salary in the league right now is POR at $119M for their entire team and the highest is championship CLE at $131...so we'd planning on filling the 3-4 roster spots with $12-13M in today's market?! lol good luck with that.
    Last year and this year the Raptors filled the last 3-4 roster spots for less than 12 - 13 million. Could be two spots filled next year with late first round rookies.

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      Saw some where apperantly Philly is looking for Cory and a 1st. Not saying its legit but, what do you guys think?

      If Delon was healthy I would have to serious think about it.
      I do believe there is some merit to it because I think Masai would be somewhat intrigued by it but not as much as he would have been before the draft. The Raps do need rim protection and Noel is ELITE at that with DPOY potential but there are a few major problems are 1) he is clearly very injury prone 2) based on stories there could be some major character issues which is a big no no in this organization and seems likely with how desperate PHI is to get rid of such potential 3) with Yak and Siakam the need is no longer as great so when you ship out CoJo and a 1st you want to make sure it fulfills a larger hole in our team because you can't take it back after and Noel has already stated that he sees himself as a superstar which means commanding top dollar. From PHI's side the deal makes total sense...there are desperate to reboot and shed all the old negative energy of Hinkies yesteryear and Noel and Okafor have been trouble for them off the court. They have Embiid and Saric who are a much better fit and suit the new style of bball much better. Now they are in need of players that play hard and have a winning attitude, Corey is young and fits the bill and lastly they get a PICK which it seems most in here dont seem to understand the value of....and helps this thread get back on track.

      A pick in the 20 - 30 range in this years draft is more on par with years past 10-20 and arguably better....some of you really dont seem to realize the glut of talent coming thru this mega draft. Just youtube some of the players I listed inititially and then youtube the guys currently projected in the 10-20 range because you know at least 2 or 3 will fall as each year they always do. I 100% guarantee that at least one player 20+ range will not only be as good as Hood but better. There is ridiculous amount of upside in this draft and Im sure Masai is aware of that (as is BC so is a fairly good drafter) and that it has been a sticking point for him in multiple trades because he hints at it where he says he is unwilling to sacrafice the future for short temporary gain, he is waiting on the right deal. He is as aware as anyone its not likely we get through LBJ unless we bring in an elite player if not we need someone who will still be good when LeBron fades. If not we are quietly building for the future unless something really good presents itself.

      I would strongly recommend people spend less time thinking about trade scenarios and start looking at the players projected outside the top 12 or so of this draft to get an understanding why these picks are worth more than gold this year...

      Comment


      • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
        I do believe there is some merit to it because I think Masai would be somewhat intrigued by it but not as much as he would have been before the draft. The Raps do need rim protection and Noel is ELITE at that with DPOY potential but there are a few major problems are 1) he is clearly very injury prone 2) based on stories there could be some major character issues which is a big no no in this organization and seems likely with how desperate PHI is to get rid of such potential 3) with Yak and Siakam the need is no longer as great so when you ship out CoJo and a 1st you want to make sure it fulfills a larger hole in our team because you can't take it back after and Noel has already stated that he sees himself as a superstar which means commanding top dollar. From PHI's side the deal makes total sense...there are desperate to reboot and shed all the old negative energy of Hinkies yesteryear and Noel and Okafor have been trouble for them off the court. They have Embiid and Saric who are a much better fit and suit the new style of bball much better. Now they are in need of players that play hard and have a winning attitude, Corey is young and fits the bill and lastly they get a PICK which it seems most in here dont seem to understand the value of....and helps this thread get back on track.

        A pick in the 20 - 30 range in this years draft is more on par with years past 10-20 and arguably better....some of you really dont seem to realize the glut of talent coming thru this mega draft. Just youtube some of the players I listed inititially and then youtube the guys currently projected in the 10-20 range because you know at least 2 or 3 will fall as each year they always do. I 100% guarantee that at least one player 20+ range will not only be as good as Hood but better. There is ridiculous amount of upside in this draft and Im sure Masai is aware of that (as is BC so is a fairly good drafter) and that it has been a sticking point for him in multiple trades because he hints at it where he says he is unwilling to sacrafice the future for short temporary gain, he is waiting on the right deal. He is as aware as anyone its not likely we get through LBJ unless we bring in an elite player if not we need someone who will still be good when LeBron fades. If not we are quietly building for the future unless something really good presents itself.

        I would strongly recommend people spend less time thinking about trade scenarios and start looking at the players projected outside the top 12 or so of this draft to get an understanding why these picks are worth more than gold this year...
        First, I think if the ask is delon, bebe and a pick then that's pennies on the $ for my perceived value of noel. Don't assume that's it's not a 2018 pick either.
        Noel will be hurt for several weeks so we have time to let the rookies play and see.
        Yes, yak has been good relative to expectation (which was 3rd string 905er) but asking him to play a huge role on a team with ecf designs for 100 games is a lot. Especially since he's very skinny vs nurkic, etc. Imo we are a lot of trouble if jv gets injured, especially if it coincides for a long stretch of Sully's injury.
        Yes, noel has injury problems but he came into the league with a big one and since then has had shorter bouts. He's still very young.
        In terms of the draft, we are very young and trying to compete at the highest level of a man's league. Can we add two more rookies in the 20-25th pick region next yr. Of course, but might not be ideal if the right trade is available. I certainly value the draft and still think we should consolidate both picks into a higher selection (not easy) or trade one.
        Lastly, I don't think you give enough credit to the rr community and too much credit to yourself. No one knows who will be in our range come June. College hasn't started, no one has declared. The fact you recommend watching dx as a draft primer says a lot. You gotta watch the games. I'll take dogelovers opinion as someone who will see fultz live this year over you interpretation of a dx video anyway.
        I've agreed with many things you said in this thread and thx for creating it but don't tell us that we need to go watch dx to make our opinions credible here. You're not j givony actually at the games either. Even he gets it wrong. All the draft experts do, a lot!

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        • http://thesixersense.com/2016/11/05/...-nerlens-noel/

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          • Patrick Peterson tho... lol

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            • I actually would like Noel, but if we're giving up CoJo, we're going to need to get a PG back as well, especially because Wright is still injured.

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                I actually would like Noel, but if we're giving up CoJo, we're going to need to get a PG back as well, especially because Wright is still injured.
                Maybe McConnell. Wright bebe 1st is best case.
                I'd feel better about fvv and wright if they got mins in the past.
                We drafted delon to be backup before cojo was available so the raps had some confidence in him. Plus I think norm can handle the ball a bit. Not like we have a pass first pg or run much of an offense. Cojo calls his own number a lot.
                Lastly, this is Phillys asking price, not raps offer.

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                • Trade CoJo for Noel and you get worse, hands down. And next year's salary goes way up. And losing a pick? Madness.

                  Downgrading from JV to Noel would be a very bad idea. Even if JV is traded for a PF upgrade - we have a team that works very well, we should be looking to upgrade an area of weakness, not bail on some of our areas of strength to do so.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    Trade CoJo for Noel and you get worse, hands down. And next year's salary goes way up. And losing a pick? Madness.

                    Downgrading from JV to Noel would be a very bad idea. Even if JV is traded for a PF upgrade - we have a team that works very well, we should be looking to upgrade an area of weakness, not bail on some of our areas of strength to do so.
                    Jv is only an area of strength if we use those strengths. If he only has 2fga (many of his fga since game 2 have been tip ins) but he does have to play pnr defence all game. Jv brings many things we'd miss for sure but we 'd gain some things too that might be a better fit and we'd have rental window to test it. The drop off in term of fit of jv vs noel is not as potentially great as siakam vs favors or whomever we get for jv. That might make us better overall. We could trade noel if yak emerges.
                    Cory is the sixers ask. Doesn't mean delon bebe 1st is not the best deal they get.
                    I like cory. Not as much as I think you do tho.
                    I would mind seeing norm handle more bc hes getting better at dribble drive, more decisive, better shooter and good defender.

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                    • Sorry better passer out of dribble drive

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                      • JV is incredibly underrated by some. He produces wins at an incredible rate, statistically speaking. By WS he had the best per minute season of any player in Raptors' history last year. He's dominant by WP. He's improved significantly in impact stats every year.

                        Questions about whether he could be even better if used differently are irrelevant to the question of whether he should be moved. In his current role he's incredibly valuable and incredibly important to the team. The drop off from him to another offenceless big like Noel would be far bigger than is being implied. Having the roll man be a dangerous threat is so very important to what this team does on offence, regardless of how much they actually pass to him.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • My only real hang up with the deal for Noel is giving up a 2017 1st round pick.

                          Which as a side bar was my point there lewro...it wasn't me thinking I was better etc etc. It's that this thread is pretty much hijacked with nothing but trade talk including these picks and it seems like most people are treating them like there just extra trade fodder when in reality given the huge depth and upside of the draft are more like picks in the 10-20 (maybe even better because I guarantee at least one player 20+ is going to be a flat out stud in the league), there is just too much talent coming in that at least a couple players will slip through people's fingers. So yes I do still think a lot of posters here need to go read and watch more about the prospects in this draft so they get the upside and not think of the picks as just some arbitrary throw in which is how good ol BC used to treat picks.

                          Make this our own 2018 with lottery protection and I would be more open to it. Really though with Noel's injury history I have major hesitation doing anything more than straight swap and even then I almost feel like we should hold on to Corey for a different package.
                          Last edited by JamesNaismith; Sat Nov 5th, 2016, 10:45 PM.

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            JV is incredibly underrated by some. He produces wins at an incredible rate, statistically speaking. By WS he had the best per minute season of any player in Raptors' history last year. He's dominant by WP. He's improved significantly in impact stats every year.

                            Questions about whether he could be even better if used differently are irrelevant to the question of whether he should be moved. In his current role he's incredibly valuable and incredibly important to the team. The drop off from him to another offenceless big like Noel would be far bigger than is being implied. Having the roll man be a dangerous threat is so very important to what this team does on offence, regardless of how much they actually pass to him.

                            All of this so hypothetical but IF Noel was actually consistently healthy personally I would really like the trade and have no issue shopping JV because that would be far more in line with how basketball is played today. JV is a traditional big man that can score around the basket but is fairly slow. Today's NBA centers are big, fast, athletic and used to rebound and block shots. Nerlens if healthy is an absolute elite rim protector like a Siakam on steroids because he's even longer, just as quick but jumps through the ceiling and like Pascal has a developing jumper.

                            Not to mention and I realize even before I write it that the level of competition is very different but something that always stood out to me is that Lowry and DD seem to use athletic bigs well in PnRs. Lowry was constantly looking for Jordan in the Olympics and DD did so in the All Star Game with Drummond. As much as Val gets easy buckets, I think our team would generate a ton with Nerlen's athleticism in a PnR situation just like we did with Biz except Noel has better touch around the rim, far better quickness and very explosive leaping ability. I know we would miss some of JV's ability to finish around the basket but that's the thing...

                            It would become a question of, is it better with JV and our current PF situation or in this hypothetical Noel and an all-star caliber PF...and the answer imo would be the latter because that is at the core of the best teams in the league. The current construct is using a big man to rebound, block shots and disrupt shots both in the paint, on the perimeter and be a better HELP defender. Having an elite PF opens the court a lot more which would help DeRozan, Ross and Powell even that much more and our TEAM defence would also be that much better....but all of this is only really relevant if Noel can stay healthy. At his age I wouldn't give up on the notion (I mean look at Embiid bouncing back) but it's definitely a big risk, if it only comes at the cost of Corey, I might be down for it.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              JV is incredibly underrated by some. He produces wins at an incredible rate, statistically speaking. By WS he had the best per minute season of any player in Raptors' history last year. He's dominant by WP. He's improved significantly in impact stats every year.

                              Questions about whether he could be even better if used differently are irrelevant to the question of whether he should be moved. In his current role he's incredibly valuable and incredibly important to the team. The drop off from him to another offenceless big like Noel would be far bigger than is being implied. Having the roll man be a dangerous threat is so very important to what this team does on offence, regardless of how much they actually pass to him.
                              Of course it matters whether you use the guy or not. Yes, Val is still a threat in pnr so that's useful but noel is a good rim runner. Lobs are Lowry's passing skill. Dd doesn't pass, gets doubled jv is wide open all the time that's not useful. The areas of drop off are more screen assists to open dd up. Rebs, free throws, post defence. His biggest asset is post offense imo. I do value jv. but we try to force him 5 or 6 looks in a game. It's hard to watch. Noel might have 5 stl 5 blks in a game. Contest a lot of shots, pnr d, perimeter d. We need that vs Kyrie, Bron.
                              Look how effective yak was last night with pnr defence and rim protection. Jv didn't play for 20 mins and part of that is fit imo.
                              I like siakam but hes... siakam. We're talking about trading bench guys for a star pf. Much easier to get a star pf with a star c. We still retain most of our assets and get a better fit and balance. It's rare to get a rental test fit first.
                              Yak is farther along than we thought. Changes my perspective. Noel could be a good transition and he'd still be 25 if we wanted to trade him.
                              We are still largely colangelo core and there are fit issues.

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                              • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                                All of this so hypothetical but IF Noel was actually consistently healthy personally I would really like the trade and have no issue shopping JV because that would be far more in line with how basketball is played today. JV is a traditional big man that can score around the basket but is fairly slow. Today's NBA centers are big, fast, athletic and used to rebound and block shots. Nerlens if healthy is an absolute elite rim protector like a Siakam on steroids because he's even longer, just as quick but jumps through the ceiling and like Pascal has a developing jumper.

                                Not to mention and I realize even before I write it that the level of competition is very different but something that always stood out to me is that Lowry and DD seem to use athletic bigs well in PnRs. Lowry was constantly looking for Jordan in the Olympics and DD did so in the All Star Game with Drummond. As much as Val gets easy buckets, I think our team would generate a ton with Nerlen's athleticism in a PnR situation just like we did with Biz except Noel has better touch around the rim, far better quickness and very explosive leaping ability. I know we would miss some of JV's ability to finish around the basket but that's the thing...

                                It would become a question of, is it better with JV and our current PF situation or in this hypothetical Noel and an all-star caliber PF...and the answer imo would be the latter because that is at the core of the best teams in the league. The current construct is using a big man to rebound, block shots and disrupt shots both in the paint, on the perimeter and be a better HELP defender. Having an elite PF opens the court a lot more which would help DeRozan, Ross and Powell even that much more and our TEAM defence would also be that much better....but all of this is only really relevant if Noel can stay healthy. At his age I wouldn't give up on the notion (I mean look at Embiid bouncing back) but it's definitely a big risk, if it only comes at the cost of Corey, I might be down for it.
                                Yes this mostly what I'm saying. And we'd get a test drive for a yr. I'm not that worried about his health. We'd check his medical reports and factor it.
                                I do like cory. But it's a potential dpoy in noel tho. Cory is a very good role player. Not sure there is such a huge drop with delon and fvv but that's one reason they should play.
                                We can't keep 2 more 20s pick rookies imo. Not on an ecf team.

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