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  • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
    Yeah we'll definitely have to agree to disagree because I just don't see it (him making us a true contender....and his true age lol). Sorry (but not) that some will say I'm stereotyping but I don't believe for one sec that Ibaka is only 27 y/o. Pretty much all things point to him being older than stated...we've seen a decline in his stats and really imo if you look at him 3 or so years ago, that was a guy who looked and played physically like a man entering his prime. This one still seems strong, in good shape but just the slightest notch under what he once was (as evidenced by his stats) but moving along...

    The other shortcoming I have with him is that he's not a creator on offence and he's not really a leader. Two things we sorely miss when Kyle is not on the court and also when he (and DeMar) are struggling like the previous seasons. A guy like Millsap, can do both because he's so versatile and he's the engine behind ATL's success and Ibaka is the guy that can't even get his team in the Playoffs (levels to it). Also while Ibaka is a solid shotblocker he's not as smart of an overall defender like Millsap....



    He has a greater overall effect on the entire defence because he just has a great feel and understanding of what's going on, where as Serge is much more of just a strong shotblocker than an overall defender and right now our defence as unit not only needs shotblocking but IQ to lead it as well. PM is another true general on the court and will be a much better match up against LBJ than Ibaka, in fact he's probably the closest physically (obviously nowhere near as explosive but smart) to have a real impact to make us much more challenging for LeBron. Ibaka maybe slows down Love but the issue for us (and everyone else isn't him), it's LBJ and like Green (but stronger) Paul's the best we can hope for there. With Ibaka imo you're only kidding yourself.
    looking at this video makes me realize how underrated Milsap is as a defender
    he doesnt try to do fancy blocks like most NBA big men (which increases risk of fouling or goal tending), but he blocks while players are going up most of the time!!! great feel for the game!
    the vid also reminds of how good Pero Antic used to be
    I wonder if pedro antic would ever come back to NBA
    Last edited by Triplethreat89; Tue Feb 7, 2017, 03:44 PM.

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    • lewro wrote: View Post
      Which team would out bid us for ibaka?
      I haven't seen a better offer posted than Ross. If that's the case then I don't see a need to add a second player or a pick. I'm not all in on ibaka but Ross straight up is worth considering imo.
      Also, how much money is ibaka worth next yr. Anything north of 20m per and I'm walking. I think I'd rather keep pat at 15m or less.
      76ers (prob no point & unlikely) & Nyets, unfortunately very likely as they have no choice. If Ibaka is only interested in $$, I can see Nets giving him max or close to max, since they are unlikely to attract major talent at "market price".
      As for "is Ibaka worth 20+ mil", I'd let his performance (& impact on our team) over the last part os season & play offs determine that.
      A lot of forum is not high on him, but his PER is still more than respectable.

      Comment


      • planetmars wrote: View Post
        *EDIT* - rumours are Ajinca and a first rounder. Surprised that BC is still trying to get draft picks.
        Why not?
        Besides, how would it look trading a high lottery pick for a 2nd rounder (or was he undrafted)?

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        • Mapko wrote: View Post
          Why not?
          Besides, how would it look trading a high lottery pick for a 2nd rounder (or was he undrafted)?
          Okafor was a top 5 pick. And BC was brought in to help bring some respect back to the Philly franchise. And going younger isn't usually the best way to do that. Just surprised by the rumours.. I also read that they were interested in Holiday which makes more sense in my opinion.

          Comment


          • Triplethreat89 wrote: View Post
            looking at this video makes me realize how underrated Milsap is as a defender
            he doesnt try to do fancy blocks like most NBA big men (which increases risk of fouling or goal tending), but he blocks while players are going up most of the time!!! great feel for the game!
            the vid also reminds of how good Pero Antic used to be
            I wonder if pedro antic would ever come back to NBA
            He's not just an underrated defender.. he's underrated period. The Kyle Lowry of PF's in my opinion. I would love to have him on this team. Just don't think it'll happen though. Atlanta's too good to dismantle it all mid season. Besides I think Millsap is loyal. He'll probably resign with Atlanta in the summer.

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post
              He's not just an underrated defender.. he's underrated period. The Kyle Lowry of PF's in my opinion. I would love to have him on this team. Just don't think it'll happen though. Atlanta's too good to dismantle it all mid season. Besides I think Millsap is loyal. He'll probably resign with Atlanta in the summer.
              Yeah the window has closed.

              I really hope something shakes loose for us this deadline, I love our guys but we aren't going to make further progress as currently constructed.
              It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

              Comment


              • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                Yeah the window has closed.

                I really hope something shakes loose for us this deadline, I love our guys but we aren't going to make further progress as currently constructed.
                How is Atlanta getting better? Honest question. Their season has picked up a bit relative to how it started, but they've still lost a step since their peak. Do they have cap space or picks?
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                Comment


                • Just saw an interesting article on BBallBreakdown regarding the trade deadline. What they did was give 30 writers/podcasters/twitter personalities control of an NBA team for a week and let them negotiate deals with each other. Sure enough our Toronto Raptors made a move, in what was a 3 team deal.

                  To Orlando Magic: Norman Powell, Derrick Favors
                  To Utah Jazz: Cory Joseph, Patrick Patterson
                  To Toronto Raptors: Serge Ibaka, Mario Hezonja, Raul Neto

                  I personally, am a much bigger fan of Derrick Favors than Serge Ibaka so I would've liked to see him in a Raptors uniform instead. He's the younger of the two, has a much better contract situation (locked in at 12M per year through the 17-18 season), and from what I've watched, brings it much more consistently on the defensive end where he is a very underrated performer compared to Ibaka, who has started to decline since his injures. True, the offensive fit wouldn't be as great as it would be with Ibaka but I'd rather see more of an interior toughness and defensive presence, as well as consistent rebounding.

                  Thoughts?

                  EDIT: Here is the link to said article, https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/02/0...rade-deadline/
                  Last edited by GinobilisBaldSpot; Tue Feb 7, 2017, 06:27 PM.

                  Comment


                  • That's a TERRIBLE trade. Just awful. 3 key players for a rental player? hell no.
                    Mamba Mentality

                    Comment


                    • GinobilisBaldSpot wrote: View Post
                      Just saw an interesting article on BBallBreakdown regarding the trade deadline. What they did was give 30 writers/podcasters/twitter personalities control of an NBA team for a week and let them negotiate deals with each other. Sure enough our Toronto Raptors made a move, in what was a 3 team deal.

                      To Orlando Magic: Norman Powell, Derrick Favors
                      To Utah Jazz: Cory Joseph, Patrick Patterson
                      To Toronto Raptors: Serge Ibaka, Mario Hezonja, Raul Neto

                      I personally, am a much bigger fan of Derrick Favors than Serge Ibaka so I would've liked to see him in a Raptors uniform instead. He's the younger of the two, has a much better contract situation (locked in at 12M per year through the 17-18 season), and from what I've watched, brings it much more consistently on the defensive end where he is a very underrated performer compared to Ibaka, who has started to decline since his injures. True, the offensive fit wouldn't be as great as it would be with Ibaka but I'd rather see more of an interior toughness and defensive presence, as well as consistent rebounding.

                      Thoughts?
                      Let there be Ten Raptors Commandments, with #1 being
                      Thou Shalt Not Make a Trade Without Ross in it

                      Comment


                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        How is Atlanta getting better? Honest question. Their season has picked up a bit relative to how it started, but they've still lost a step since their peak. Do they have cap space or picks?
                        They're not. They're firmly a treadmill team and have been for about a decade. Their fate is what we should hope to avoid.
                        It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                        Comment


                        • octothorp wrote: View Post
                          I can certainly respect that perspective, but I disagree for a couple reasons:

                          Firstly, we're almost inevitably capped out for the foreseeable future, so how much we're over the cap isn't a huge factor. It's not like we're going to be able to get under the cap enough to sign big free agents. And probably, we're not just going to be over the cap, we're probably going to be into the luxury tax if we retain Lowry in the offseason, with a three year window until the repeater rate kicks in. So, the only thing that overpaying Ibaka really affects is the owners' pocketbooks, and if they're willing to overpay, I don't think fans have much reason to object.
                          Secondly, I think Ibaka is actually a near perfect fit here that gives us a serious puncher's chance against Cleveland. Maybe not as much as Millsap, but enough to make it worth the move. JV + Ibaka gives us a starting lineup that stretches the floor better than any other starting unit we've had in the last couple years, and gives us better shot-blocking as well. But Patterson + Ibaka as a counter for Cleveland's perimeter-oriented lineups is where I see the real upside to acquiring Ibaka; an elite pick-and-roll defender who can guard wings out on the perimeter (even guards when necessary). Mix in Bebe as a fourth big and that's an extremely versatile and dangerous group.

                          As well, being the same age as DeRozan, he makes sense as part of a long-term core on this team, moreso than Millsap. He'd be by far the most playoff-experienced guy on the roster.

                          Personally, I can't imagine a realistic scenario where we have as good odds to get to the finals in the next 3 years as we would right now if we did a trade based around Ibaka for Ross and Poeltl. (And I say that as a big fan of Ross.) If we could get him for something that was based around Carroll (or Corey) instead of Ross, all the better, but I don't consider that realistic.
                          Pretty much explains how I feel about the situation.

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          @Chr1st1anL

                          Comment


                          • octothorp wrote: View Post
                            I can certainly respect that perspective, but I disagree for a couple reasons:

                            Firstly, we're almost inevitably capped out for the foreseeable future, so how much we're over the cap isn't a huge factor. It's not like we're going to be able to get under the cap enough to sign big free agents. And probably, we're not just going to be over the cap, we're probably going to be into the luxury tax if we retain Lowry in the offseason, with a three year window until the repeater rate kicks in. So, the only thing that overpaying Ibaka really affects is the owners' pocketbooks, and if they're willing to overpay, I don't think fans have much reason to object.
                            Secondly, I think Ibaka is actually a near perfect fit here that gives us a serious puncher's chance against Cleveland. Maybe not as much as Millsap, but enough to make it worth the move. JV + Ibaka gives us a starting lineup that stretches the floor better than any other starting unit we've had in the last couple years, and gives us better shot-blocking as well. But Patterson + Ibaka as a counter for Cleveland's perimeter-oriented lineups is where I see the real upside to acquiring Ibaka; an elite pick-and-roll defender who can guard wings out on the perimeter (even guards when necessary). Mix in Bebe as a fourth big and that's an extremely versatile and dangerous group.

                            As well, being the same age as DeRozan, he makes sense as part of a long-term core on this team, moreso than Millsap. He'd be by far the most playoff-experienced guy on the roster.

                            Personally, I can't imagine a realistic scenario where we have as good odds to get to the finals in the next 3 years as we would right now if we did a trade based around Ibaka for Ross and Poeltl. (And I say that as a big fan of Ross.) If we could get him for something that was based around Carroll (or Corey) instead of Ross, all the better, but I don't consider that realistic.
                            Missed this, good post.

                            On paper it's exactly the type of gamble we should be taking. The only thing that makes me hesitate is the age/decline issue. But Masai is connected enough to know whether that's a real issue or apocryphal.
                            It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

                            Comment


                            • Will Lou and Matt Moore did a good job of running through some of the Raps trade targets in the last podcast. Towards the end, Moore says something like "they need a four who can rebound, defend and keep teams honest with some outside shooting". Isn't that Patterson? Now, if Patterson's knee is becoming a Carroll thing and he'll never really be right this year...look for Ppat 2 all you want. Do we just want someone 15% better than Patterson? Is that worth not playing him as much (or worse yet, trading him)?

                              Comment


                              • GinobilisBaldSpot wrote: View Post
                                Just saw an interesting article on BBallBreakdown regarding the trade deadline. What they did was give 30 writers/podcasters/twitter personalities control of an NBA team for a week and let them negotiate deals with each other. Sure enough our Toronto Raptors made a move, in what was a 3 team deal.

                                To Orlando Magic: Norman Powell, Derrick Favors
                                To Utah Jazz: Cory Joseph, Patrick Patterson
                                To Toronto Raptors: Serge Ibaka, Mario Hezonja, Raul Neto

                                I personally, am a much bigger fan of Derrick Favors than Serge Ibaka so I would've liked to see him in a Raptors uniform instead. He's the younger of the two, has a much better contract situation (locked in at 12M per year through the 17-18 season), and from what I've watched, brings it much more consistently on the defensive end where he is a very underrated performer compared to Ibaka, who has started to decline since his injures. True, the offensive fit wouldn't be as great as it would be with Ibaka but I'd rather see more of an interior toughness and defensive presence, as well as consistent rebounding.

                                Thoughts?


                                Comment

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