Everything Trade Chatter

[Jclaw]

I'm still amazed, after years of following this team through the dessert, how we have become so relevant in the NBA. Phil Jackson's tweet about a story in Bleacher Report made the news but I didn't realize the Raptors got a shout out in the original story as well.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...hing-he-is-not

"That brings us to today and all the speculation over whether Anthony might waive his no-trade provision to go to the potentially title-ready Los Angeles Clippers, Cleveland Cavaliers, Boston Celtics or even Toronto Raptors."

[Scraptor]

Will Lou and Matt Moore did a good job of running through some of the Raps trade targets in the last podcast. Towards the end, Moore says something like "they need a four who can rebound, defend and keep teams honest with some outside shooting". Isn't that Patterson? Now, if Patterson's knee is becoming a Carroll thing and he'll never really be right this year...look for Ppat 2 all you want. Do we just want someone 15% better than Patterson? Is that worth not playing him as much (or worse yet, trading him)?

It's an absolutely valid question. I know Dan has pointed out that RPM numbers are noisy midseason, but Patman is 7th among NBA power forwards, which is absolutely killer.

But I think octothorp brought up a very valid and important point. If you get a mobile 4 who can shoot and defend, you now have a better toolbox for matching up against elite smallball lineups.

If a high-impact 3/4 was available I'd prefer to go that route, since you end up a little crowded with 2 PFs and Jonas, but it doesn't look like any are available.

[Maury]

Everything Trade Chatter

It's an absolutely valid question. I know Dan has pointed out that RPM numbers are noisy midseason, but Patman is 7th among NBA power forwards, which is absolutely killer.

But I think octothorp brought up a very valid and important point. If you get a mobile 4 who can shoot and defend, you now have a better toolbox for matching up against elite smallball lineups.

If a high-impact 3/4 was available I'd prefer to go that route, since you end up a little crowded with 2 PFs and Jonas, but it doesn't look like any are available.

Wilson Chandler would fit really well and may be available.


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[Mapko]

Just saw an interesting article on BBallBreakdown regarding the trade deadline. What they did was give 30 writers/podcasters/twitter personalities control of an NBA team for a week and let them negotiate deals with each other. Sure enough our Toronto Raptors made a move, in what was a 3 team deal.

To Orlando Magic: Norman Powell, Derrick Favors
To Utah Jazz: Cory Joseph, Patrick Patterson
To Toronto Raptors: Serge Ibaka, Mario Hezonja, Raul Neto

I personally, am a much bigger fan of Derrick Favors than Serge Ibaka so I would've liked to see him in a Raptors uniform instead. He's the younger of the two, has a much better contract situation (locked in at 12M per year through the 17-18 season), and from what I've watched, brings it much more consistently on the defensive end where he is a very underrated performer compared to Ibaka, who has started to decline since his injures. True, the offensive fit wouldn't be as great as it would be with Ibaka but I'd rather see more of an interior toughness and defensive presence, as well as consistent rebounding.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Here is the link to said article, https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/02/0...rade-deadline/

Why not Joseph & 2Pat for Favors? To hell w Orlando & Neto (& we keep Powell).

[JamesNaismith]

I thought the idea of bringing back Ibaka might be short changing us but aiming for Wilson Chandler as a consulation prize is the definition of short changing (better yet a half measure) as it gets. Giving up Ross who actually appears to have some trade value around the league, is just a waste of a resource. Ross' subtraction and Chandler's addition really wouldn't make us that much better of a team and we just wasted an asset that apparently has some value in bigger name trades (ie/ Millsap who obviously would make a much bigger impact)....so imo making of move for Chandler is a wash.

But when I think of "addition by subtraction", I have to give credit that, that's one way that an Ibaka trade could give our franchise an suspected boost IF DeMarre Carroll was a part of a package going back. Because with Carroll out of the damn way, it finally opens up the door to a new era and that's a Triple Threat of Guards. I know they would be slightly undersized as a result and NO it's not "ideal" but Kyle, DeMar and Powell playing alongside each other can be a real handful for the opposing to guard (the other end, is where we can't tell yet if it would be a wash) but with Carroll out of the way we can start finding out which I think will be the biggest impact. But that's where my only problem with Ibaka is, he's still a pretty good shotblocker but our team will need a much smarter overall defender to make up for the times DeMar gets beat or Norm is overpowered. Ibaka isn't that guy, Millsap is but that's the catch 22 because you can't send Carroll and get Millsap. You just might be able to send Carroll and still get Ibaka so we'll be good but no oddly terrible pun attended we'd fall short. But I'll play devil's advocate and say maybe we can trade in the off-season for a DeAndre Jordan or Hassan Whiteside and they can create wall big enough to keep America out.

[Mapko]

. But I'll play devil's advocate and say maybe we can trade in the off-season for a DeAndre Jordan or Hassan Whiteside and they can create wall big enough to keep America out.

I thought the plan was to build wall & keep Mexicans out.
Edit: Just kidding.
Are you saying trade Val as well (the only way Jordan or Whiteside make sense).

[Mapko]

Missed this, good post.

On paper it's exactly the type of gamble we should be taking. The only thing that makes me hesitate is the age/decline issue. But Masai is connected enough to know whether that's a real issue or apocryphal.

Am I missing something?
Most of Rap fans would prefer Millsap over Ibaka (even with likely much higher cost to acquire). Frequent issue is that Ibaka is supposedly 27 (but actually much older, maybe even 30). How old is Millsap who (IMO) is way more likely to get a max contract next year? Being 32 (for sure) not an issue?
And yes I know Millsap has been steady over last number of years & under rated.

[Chefff]

Let there be Ten Raptors Commandments, with #1 being
Thou Shalt Not Make a Trade Without Ross in it

Not a bad rule but I would think that "Thou shalt not trade NORM without a legit superstar in return" would be more crucial.

[Chefff]

Am I missing something?
Most of Rap fans would prefer Millsap over Ibaka (even with likely much higher cost to acquire). Frequent issue is that Ibaka is supposedly 27 (but actually much older, maybe even 30). How old is Millsap who (IMO) is way more likely to get a max contract next year? Being 32 (for sure) not an issue?
And yes I know Millsap has been steady over last number of years & under rated.

I'm not comfortable with signing Milsap to a 5-year max at his age, but I'd much rather pay him $30mil next season than $25mil for ibaka.

[lewro]

Deadline to restructure Griffin and Paul deals is the end of this month. Early termination is one week after the draft.
DeAndre is only guaranteed one more yr.
Clips were so strong out of the gate but theyre falling now...
What's DeAndre worth in trade?

[JamesNaismith]

I thought the plan was to build wall & keep Mexicans out.
Edit: Just kidding.
Are you saying trade Val as well (the only way Jordan or Whiteside make sense).

If we had Ibaka to make up for some of the offence, our team actually doesn't need a whole heck more when you have that trio in the backcourt and hence why even with Carroll still here we still don't look for Val a lot because for the most part we don't need more offence that badly. In a scenario like this Norm and Ibaka's offensive output should make up for whatever lost ppg for sending out JV.

On the flip side there would be a massive difference in post defence, lane intimidation and actually an important in being able to recover defensively from the C position from the perimeter. Not to mention both Jordan (13.6rpg) and Whiteside ($13.9rpg) and are better shotblockers so there's no loss on the boards and a major improvement defensively. Least we forget Lowry (as obvious with Bebe, JV and Jordan on Team USA) and even DeRozan (if you recall him playing alongside Drummond) love to look for an alleyoop to the big man off the dribble. If we're going to try and create a team that really "fits" well together, those 2 additions are probably as close as you can realistically get. I actually think Whiteside would be able to come close to offsetting JV offensively but he's probably a part of MIA's future plans, we'll see what happens this summer in LaLa Land/Lob City.

[Scraptor]

Am I missing something?
Most of Rap fans would prefer Millsap over Ibaka (even with likely much higher cost to acquire). Frequent issue is that Ibaka is supposedly 27 (but actually much older, maybe even 30). How old is Millsap who (IMO) is way more likely to get a max contract next year? Being 32 (for sure) not an issue?
And yes I know Millsap has been steady over last number of years & under rated.

It's also an issue. I think the difference is twofold:

1. Millsap is a proven star who can create his own offense to a greater extent than Ibaka. 51% of Ibaka's shots are catch-and-shoot, vs 32% for Millsap. 55% of Ibaka's shots are open vs 46% for Millsap. You can give the ball to Millsap in the post and he can make something happen.

2. Millsap's game is more built on BBIQ than athleticism, vs Ibaka who has been more of an athletic freak. You can expect Millsap to age more like a David West with Indiana, whereas Ibaka's decline could be more severe/unpredictable.

So despite Millsap being older, people are willing to bet on the more certain thing, because they'll both get paid huge.

Neither is a perfect solution though. There may not be a perfect solution, we have to make the best of what's available.

[Triplethreat89]

He's not just an underrated defender.. he's underrated period. The Kyle Lowry of PF's in my opinion. I would love to have him on this team. Just don't think it'll happen though. Atlanta's too good to dismantle it all mid season. Besides I think Millsap is loyal. He'll probably resign with Atlanta in the summer.

You said it brother...
Many people here assumes window has closed, but personally I don't buy that at all
I do believe asking price for milsap did go up tho..
Hopefully we get him somehow :'(

[Triplethreat89]

Not a bad rule but I would think that "Thou shalt not trade NORM without a legit superstar in return" would be more crucial.

That too
I freaking love Norm!!!
I love Norm so much that I would protest against any trades involving him

[The Great One]

We can't afford to trade Powell. 1.) Because he's really good. 2.) He's our BEST perimeter defender. And 3.) He's the only COMPETENT small forward we have. Imagine going into the playoffs with Carroll as your SF?

Carroll is basically our Luis Scola this year. And just like last years playoffs where Scola did not get much playing time. I think Carroll will get the same treatment. I expect Powell to be our starting SF come playoff time.