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  • TRex wrote: View Post
    We can't afford to trade Powell. 1.) Because he's really good. 2.) He's our BEST perimeter defender. And 3.) He's the only COMPETENT small forward we have. Imagine going into the playoffs with Carroll as your SF?

    Carroll is basically our Luis Scola this year. And just like last years playoffs where Scola did not get much playing time. I think Carroll will get the same treatment. I expect Powell to be our starting SF come playoff time.
    Yeah there's no way I would include Powell in a trade for anything less than a true star player and I'm talking at minimum for someone like Cousins and that's really if worse comes to worse scenario where it's an absolute make or break to get a deal done. Even that I have a pretty hard time stomaching and would actually like him to only be a part of a trade if it's more a Paul George level of a player but anyways...

    I really think despite Norm not being truly big enough to handle some of the shots monsters like LBJ, Giannis and Durant can get on him due to the size difference...he still does a fairly decent job and more importantly him, Lowry and DeRozan are actually a heck of a trio of guards! People don't quite realize that yet because he hasn't been given the starting spot (and starter minutes) on a full time basis. If we traded Carroll (somehow) the league would notice the difference...suddenly the "All Star" backcourt would be a trio and to clarify I don't think Powell would become an all-star but their would become some discussion about just how good he is that now we're a true triple threat in the backcourt.

    It seriously makes me sick that Carroll is just awarded starting spot and minutes when clearly not earning it and in fact showing that he is washed up and needs to be benched. It's sad and unfortunate that an injury has wiped him out but it is what it is. Not to mention I think the odd thing is it could help him because maybe with the lower minutes his body would be fresher so to speak (although I don't think it's wear n tear but more that he's lost his quickness) but I would also worry that Casey would use those more "solid" minutes to justify putting him back in the starting line up hence why I think Masai needs to find a trade for him. As aside I legit think there is also some fear that Norm blows up too much before locking him in to a "reasonable" extension (in reality a steal, like getting him for a Joseph like contract and have him produce more on par with what we paid Carroll, if not more).

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    • Mapko wrote: View Post
      Am I missing something?
      Most of Rap fans would prefer Millsap over Ibaka (even with likely much higher cost to acquire). Frequent issue is that Ibaka is supposedly 27 (but actually much older, maybe even 30). How old is Millsap who (IMO) is way more likely to get a max contract next year? Being 32 (for sure) not an issue?
      And yes I know Millsap has been steady over last number of years & under rated.
      Ibaka's career arc is a bit weird for a guy who's still only 27. His greatest strength has been his defence but that's been slipping noticably. Blocks have fallen off a cliff and are still trending down, rebounding is trending down, likely the only thing he's improved on over the last 4 years (ages 23-27) is 3 point shooting. That's really weird and doesn't give much confidence if you're looking at signing his next deal, especially if he's coming because you want a big who can bring game changing defence.

      As was mentioned most of his game is built on his athleticism and he seems to be losing it quickly and early. You won't get the Ibaka of 4 years ago when you sign him, that's for sure.

      Millsap's just been so steady, I agree he will likely age well and give you as many good years coming up here as Lowry will before age + wear and tear start to get to him, too.

      I'd still guess Atlanta explores Millsap deals at the deadline.
      Last edited by S.R.; Wed Feb 8, 2017, 10:04 AM.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • I do think Ibaka is simply not the guy you want as your 1st scoring option. Here, he'd be 3rd, 4th or even 5th and would be able to concentrate more on what we need him to do, just like he was in OKC.

        I would still trade Ross for him in a heartbeat.

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        • S.R. wrote: View Post
          Ibaka's career arc is a bit weird for a guy who's still only 27. His greatest strength has been his defence but that's been slipping noticably. Blocks have fallen off a cliff and are still trending down, rebounding is trending down, likely the only thing he's improved on over the last 4 years (ages 23-27) is 3 point shooting. That's really weird and doesn't give much confidence if you're looking at signing his next deal, especially if he's coming because you want a big who can bring game changing defence.

          As was mentioned most of his game is built on his athleticism and he seems to be losing it quickly and early. You won't get the Ibaka of 4 years ago when you sign him, that's for sure.

          Millsap's just been so steady, I agree he will likely age well and give you as many good years coming up here as Lowry will before age + wear and tear start to get to him, too.

          I'd still guess Atlanta explores Millsap deals at the deadline.
          100% they will because he's the engine that led them back on track to winning. We really missed out by not doing the deal for Ross + Patterson. I didn't like the idea of including Ross because I still believe we need his shooting against CLE BUT said worse comes to worse we need to do it because getting Sap without having to mortgage your future with picks or young players is a steal and that's the problem now.

          Millsap has stepped right back in after injury (we could of essentially bought low during injury) and has been the main reason ATL is right there with us. Speaks to how good of a player he is when they were barely .500 when he was playing through injury and eventually dealing with it but when he steps back in they're almost nose to nose with us. He truly is the "Lowry" of the Hawks and we said no because we wanted to keep a couple of rotation players instead smdh....now you can bet ATL will be trying to work those picks and/or young players out of us. If we're unable to get Sap, we're going to really regret that move. Here's hoping that we can beg for the same deal just add Poeltl and get it done.

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          • http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h9eb2fj

            Wonder if Orlando would do it.

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            • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
              Swap Ross out for Joseph, toss in a pick. Both sides win.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                Swap Ross out for Joseph, toss in a pick. Both sides win.
                Why would ORL want Joseph instead of Ross?

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                • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                  I doubt Orlando would do that simply out of how bad it would make them look. I bet they think they'll save more face if Ibaka walks than if they trade for perceived scraps; Ibaka walking could be played off as part of a risk they planned for all along.

                  They should be able to net a pick, even if it is a late one (like ours).
                  It’s Ogugua season. Time to gugua.

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                  • The Ibaka watch

                    With just over two weeks to the deadline, it seems like it's time to start the Ibaka watch. 28 and 8 for him last night. It just makes too much sense. We need front court help, Orlando needs shooting help. Ironic that the front page here has an article on Powell and Ross competing for time because I just came from the Raptors stat page to compare their numbers. Both are great parts of this team but it is a luxury to have both when there are needs elsewhere. It's starting to seem inevitable.

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                    • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                      With just over two weeks to the deadline, it seems like it's time to start the Ibaka watch. 28 and 8 for him last night. It just makes too much sense. We need front court help, Orlando needs shooting help. Ironic that the front page here has an article on Powell and Ross competing for time because I just came from the Raptors stat page to compare their numbers. Both are great parts of this team but it is a luxury to have both when there are needs elsewhere. It's starting to seem inevitable.
                      Afterall, a one for one trade would work. Add a pick if needed... (DanH?)

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                      • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                        Why would ORL want Joseph instead of Ross?
                        They wouldn't, likely. Hence the pick. But what do we do for wings next year?
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                          Afterall, a one for one trade would work. Add a pick if needed... (DanH?)
                          One for one would work, but puts the team in dire straits for salary this summer. Need to unload salary if we want to keep Ibaka long term.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Orlando wants to stay young and Carroll doesn't help. Wonder what team Carroll could help though as part of a salary dump and a 3-way deal?

                            Thibs was high on Carroll earlier this year, and Minny has cap space to absorb. How about a deal like this:
                            http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zd4c8ez

                            ... with Minny sending their 2019 pick (with protections) to Orlando as well. Minny's 2018 is going to Atlanta but is lottery protected. So can't trade it or the 2017 pick (which they won't want to do anyway).

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post
                              Orlando wants to stay young and Carroll doesn't help. Wonder what team Carroll could help though as part of a salary dump and a 3-way deal?

                              Thibs was high on Carroll earlier this year, and Minny has cap space to absorb. How about a deal like this:
                              http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zd4c8ez

                              ... with Minny sending their 2019 pick (with protections) to Orlando as well. Minny's 2018 is going to Atlanta but is lottery protected. So can't trade it or the 2017 pick (which they won't want to do anyway).
                              I don't think Minny would be willing to lose a pick here.

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                              • charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                                I'll tell you who won't....WE WON'T do it.

                                We weren't willing to give ROSS + Patterson for Millsap who is MUCH better player than Ibaka

                                But now we give up Ross AND a pick?! rotlmfao....not a chance. That's a ridiculous overpay and higher asking price than Millsap which not only makes no sense when Paul is the more talented player but Ibaka has made never stated any desire to stay ORL and they're even worse than ATL was when they wanted to trade Sap hence why they are rumored to be actively shopping him. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

                                I offer them Corey + Poeltl + filler...if they don't like walk. Why would they do it?! Corey is a cheap back up (which they need), he's also a previous teammate of Biz (who they invested heavily into), he's good in the lockerroom which helps lessen the pain of inevitable "rebuild" and Poeltl was last year's #9 pick. To keep it in perspective all ATL got for Teague (who was an all-star) was the #12 pick Taurean Prince so quite frankly we're doing them a damn favour even given them that much.

                                I don't know what the heck some of you are thinking. They are in a must deal situation. Saying if they don't get a pick they're better off letting him walk is stupid they would completely embarrass themselves if they essentially just gave away Oladipo and #11 for nothing.
                                Last edited by JamesNaismith; Wed Feb 8, 2017, 05:05 PM.

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